Low voltage + Low power communication technologies

[matkt051]

hi guys,

thanx very much for your help in my previous post.

this is the same project as I was talking before.

Now,

I would like to get a list of technologies that would be using low power and reliable to allow communicatioin between a boiler and wiring centre. (If you have boilers in your house you will know that I mean).
Ive done some research and come up with the following

1. Power line communication
2. Zigbee
3. Xbee
4. Zensys

Are there any other solutions that dont use RF solutions like the power line communication solutiion?

Please let me know.

thanks

Mat

 

[3lectrokid]

I would go with the xbee because they are really simple to use or if you have lots of money you may be able to get a bluetooth to serial port adapter and use two of them

 

[matkt051]

are you sure there are no other ones than Xbee? It cannot be a costly one. I tried looking for most but no use. Any new open source technologies that you might know?

M

 

[Mr RB]

Just buy a couple of those little 433MHz transceiver modules and drive them with microcontrollers.

 

[matkt051]

yea. that seems like a good choice. but the 433 MHz transceivers are known to be subjects of interference with other systems or noises. thats why I wuld not use em.

Anyother ones that cross your mind??

thanx

mat

 

[4pyros]

Can it be wired or must it be wireless? is it controlling anything critical?

 

[Mr RB]

Noise shouldnt be a problem if you only want low speed comms like a temperature reading. Just do multiple or continual sends of the data with a simple checksum, as long as one out of every X transmissions arrives intact your RF thermometer thingy will work fine.

 

[matkt051]

the main function of this module is to get rid of wires used to communicate from the boiler that the pump needs to run after the boiler has met the demands (pump overrun).

That is why it must be wireless (as the pump is currently wired to the boiler directly at the moment).

Hope I explained this properly.

and btw, the wires from the boiler are Live wires (derived from the mains connection).

M

 

[4pyros]

the main function of this module is to get rid of wires used to communicate from the boiler that the pump needs to run after the boiler has met the demands (pump overrun).

That is why it must be wireless (as the pump is currently wired to the boiler directly at the moment).

Hope I explained this properly.

and btw, the wires from the boiler are Live wires (derived from the mains connection).

M

Do you have a remote pump that is hard wired to and controlled by the boiler? What would be the consequences if your RF link failed? Dont you still have to run mains power to the pump? Andy

 

[matkt051]

Hi Andy,

thanx for the message.

Yea u r right. the pump is connected to the wiring centre which is connected to the pump live connection from the boiler.

but if the RF link failed, the transceivers could be made to detect this and hence give the signal for the pump to run.
this is something Ill have to work on.

but the real ques is what the different types of communication technologies are available.

Mat

 

[4pyros]

Mat; Personally I would hard wire a low voltage or even a mains voltage at low current wire to a relay at the pump. I would not rely on wireless for something like this. What if someone vacuums thare floor and the wireless goes haywire, then thare is a survice call but the repair man can not find anything wrong. See whare I am going with this. With any kind of RF control you can lose control and anything can happen. I would rather run a small wire than have wireless that can screw up depending on the suns hot spots or someone using a CB or a cellphone. Just me. Andy

 

[matkt051]

Yea it seems like a good choice.
but the whole point of this project is to allow the boiler to communicate with the pump without having it hardwired so that it doesnt affect customer's houses (like walls, floorboards etc) u know that I mean?

If there are any other technologies that can do the job perfectly and is more robust, then, thats what Im looking for. and the list I mentioned above are the only ones that I could dig up.

Mat

 

[Sceadwian]

Then what you should learn from your project matk is that there can not now nor will there every be an RF technology that is as inherently reliable as a wired connection. It is a fundamental precept with RF technology, again there is not now nor will there every be a solution to this, it's inherent to the methods used, anyone that claims or thinks otherwise has an incomplete understanding of the reality.

 

[matkt051]

Then what you should learn from your project matk is that there can not now nor will there every be an RF technology that is as inherently reliable as a wired connection. It is a fundamental precept with RF technology, again there is not now nor will there every be a solution to this, it's inherent to the methods used, anyone that claims or thinks otherwise has an incomplete understanding of the reality.

Thnx for the reply

Yea I know that reality and ideal has a very big gap. I aint looking for a 100% robust solution. All I need is a few technologies currently available that would do this job (taking all the reality into consideration). and I do know that there wont be anything that could replace the benefits of hardwires.

Mat

 

[4pyros]

Yea I know that reality and ideal has a very big gap. I aint looking for a 100% robust solution. All I need is a few technologies currently available that would do this job (taking all the reality into consideration). and I do know that there wont be anything that could replace the benefits of hardwires.

Ok then with that understanding... Thare are hundreds of ways to do this from simple AM/FM transmiters and a tone to rolling code transcevers used for alarms. Sorry i can not get specific, but you dont need data modules just simple on/off. The best way is up to you. Good luck and have fun but dont hurt anyone. Andy

 

[Sceadwian]

The boiler has to be able to command the pump on demand, there is no RF technology that can do that period, even wired isn't 100% but no wireless solution will ever be acceptable for a 'mission critical' application such as this. This is put into a house if someone is so lazy as to not want to wire it they'll pay for it in safemode trips when the boiler goes down for unknown transmission issues.

I'm not sure if this is an engineering or practical question, the technology you're trying to use is not able to reliably replace a wired solution, which even after installation of the control wire would cost LESS than the wireless solution, in materials and time. Wire pulls are not that troublesome for something that needs to be able to function if there's a solar flare, or someone using a microwave oven that has broken shielding, or any of the other unbounded failure modes for an RF signal.

As a basic example, a simple low power short range RF system could be completely blocked if someone set a cookie sheet at the wrong angle in relation to the RF signal.