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It's more laziness than anything else i guess, but then again i have other things to do that are more pressing time wise.
I've tried several distros of Ubuntu and have never got even one of them up and running on any of my systems. Perhaps it is my graphics card, but i'd have to fool around with it more i guess. I got Mandriva to work so i used that. It works ok so i was happy with it.
I always meant to try programs like Wine and such, but never got around to doing that either. Most of my programs are windowed, but some are console.
I've tried several distros of Ubuntu and have never got even one of them up and running on any of my systems. Perhaps it is my graphics card, but i'd have to fool around with it more i guess. I got Mandriva to work so i used that. It works ok so i was happy with it.
It very well may be your graphics card, depending on what it is; there is a small number of cards out there (not just graphics either - some sound cards, some ethernet cards, and some chipsets - if you have on-board stuff) that haven't had drivers made, or weren't standard enough to support existing drivers, etc (or just weren't popular enough).
I've found that as far as graphics cards go, though, to stick with NVidia based cards that -aren't- too recent vintage (since even the NVidia proprietary binary driver lags behind slightly); then once I have Ubuntu up and going good on a system, I switch over to the NVidia proprietary drivers. The Intel chipsets also seem to be fairly well supported too. Anything else you are probably best to try to look up the hardware support list for the distro you plan to install, and compare it to what you have just to make sure it is likely to all work together. Unfortunately, sometimes that isn't even enough; it's rare, but it happens.
I once had to switch from Debian Woody to Mandrake, because Woody's kernel wouldn't support a new motherboard I was forced to purchase when my old motherboard died suddenly on me. The new motherboard had a more recent chipset, that wasn't supported by that version of the kernel (and due to the glacial nature of Debian's upgrade process, then new kernel wasn't going to be included until the next release - I forget which one that was - and I didn't feel like compiling a new kernel on another system just to create a "frankenstein monster" of a linux system either).
After Mandrake (IIRC) I jumped to Ubuntu, and have been running it since.
Things have been hit and miss with Wine for me; some things run perfectly (Eagle, for instance, seems to run well, though I don't know enough about it to try everything out - not that it matters since the Linux port runs well, too), other things just don't seem to want to work (I was once trying to get Firefox to run under Wine to try to see if I could get these Adobe DRM extensions or something to be recognized so that my wife could download e-books from the library - never did work right).
...and look up drivers for "GeForce 7 Series" for Linux, you'll get a listing that basically shows that it is supported by the current proprietary driver. So what you would want to do is set up Ubuntu (or whatever distro you are using) with a "bare bones" driver (or the open source nvidia driver), then download and install the nVidia proprietary driver. Depending on the distro, you may have to hand edit the X config to remove the reference to the open-source driver, and replace it with the reference for the proprietary driver (there are plenty of documents and such on how to do this; in fact, there is probably one for your distro, and there is probably information about this in one of the documents that come with the driver itself).
Ubuntu, though, generally doesn't need any form of "hand editing" from what I've experienced.
If that is the card I think it is then it is the same card I ran in a dual boot configuration using the Susie distro of Linux. Matter of fact the Susie Linux 9.0 had the native Linux drivers right in the install. Anyway using the link cr0sh was kind enough to provide should yield drivers for most Linux distros.
- XP SP3: Can't work with Windows 7 I can't stand it. I would throw a machine that runs 7 if I worked on it.
- Ubuntu 11.10 : For now. I plan to get some distro to test (I have several ISO images, Arch, Slackware, get Debian ..).
- FreeBSD as a guest (Ubuntu as host) with VirtualBox. (Interested in testing NetBSD, OpenBSD as well).
The reason for this is that, it's (very) easier for programming to be on a Linux box. It's just like it's designed for that (compilers are already shipped, and for varied languages... You just type perl/python in a terminal and you're on. You write some C code and the compiler is already there).. They're designed for you to play, tinker, discover and learn and get dirty.
This isn't the case on Windows .. And while I agree on the fact that, yes .. Windows is really something.. You can get almost any cannibalized configuration, any custom built PC with any graphics card and it will run Windows without a problem. It's a monopoly. You can learn to do some stuff on a Windows machine, but you're not just their target audience: Their target audience is everybody, and that's just not specific enough for me.
I'm interested in learning to program, and it's just such a joy to wander through directories in FreeBSD or Ubuntu and find files with a .c or .py at the end.. And reading code, and trying to write snippets, etc...
Recently, I've been reading "The Art of Port Scanning" by Fyodor .( featured in Phrack) .. And he joined the source code for nmap, and it was short at that time. Now it's big.
From experience, learning a language has never been through putting stupid sentences. It's by reading good pieces of literature. And for the analogy, great pieces of literature are found to hover around GNU/Linux/UNIX stuff, not much on Windows.
Recently, I've been interested in drivers, and it's just an amazing field.
If that is the card I think it is then it is the same card I ran in a dual boot configuration using the Susie distro of Linux. Matter of fact the Susie Linux 9.0 had the native Linux drivers right in the install. Anyway using the link cr0sh was kind enough to provide should yield drivers for most Linux distros.
I'm pretty sure Ubuntu (and probably Mint, too) offers a default way to install the current drivers from nVidia; basically it's a wrapper package that downloads the driver from nVidia's site and unpacks it/installs it from the script the package uses. Sometimes, though, that version isn't the "latest" version that nVidia has (sometimes it doesn't matter though; generally, if the card isn't the "latest" or doesn't have an "update" in the driver, then updating the driver won't yield you much, if anything).
Happy to see other interested parties taking part in this thread too. I think everyone likes Linux to some degree they just wish it wasnt so hard to install and use sometimes.
cr0sh:
Yeah i guess i could check those drivers out. But one other problem remains...
When i try to boot with any Ubuntu package i've downloaded, i never get a
screen to work in. I may have already junked the CD's now that i had those
versions on. Not that i cant download it again.
Ron:
I almost tried that version but by the time i got to CompUSA they didnt carry
Linux in the store anymore so i scrapped the idea. Sounds interesting though.
CompUSA no longer has stores around here.
And yes that is the card you think it is, the EXACT one ha ha. I had some
trouble with the little tiny fan on it and went to replace it and could not
find an exact fit, so i bought another one and made a little adapter plate
for it. But then later i started fooling around with the old fan and found
a way to snap it apart without ruining it. I was able to clean and oil it and
it's been back in service ever since. Didnt have to remove the heat sink either
as the screws in the fan allowed its removal. Had to cut the leads though, and
solder them back together once reinstalled. I've had a million fans dry up like
that now, big ones, small ones, mid sized ones. A little cleaning and oiling
and they are back in service. Took a full set of photos so i remember how to
do it again if needed <chuckle>. Keep an eye on the heat sink temperature just
in case it stops again.
Jugurtha:
Not sure what you mean by XP SP3 cant work with Windows 7. Do you mean you can
not dual boot or something?
Yeah i guess i could check those drivers out. But one other problem remains...
When i try to boot with any Ubuntu package i've downloaded, i never get a
screen to work in. I may have already junked the CD's now that i had those
versions on. Not that i cant download it again.
It's been a long while since I last did a fresh install of Ubuntu, but there may have been a couple of things going on (and I would definitely try a fresh LiveCD or something):
1) Maybe the installer was detecting your card and trying to use the open-source nvidia driver, and it just doesn't work with that card
2) Maybe the installer detects your card, but mis-guesses and tries to use a completely different driver (one that isn't compatible at all)
I've seen both happen; it's more likely to happen if you are trying to boot the LiveCD, but it can also happen if you install it, too. If you try a new version, and still see this occurring, you'll probably have to do some research into it using a "known-good" box while you build up your primary (or secondary - however you designate it) machine. There is probably a way just prior to booting into the installer (via GRUB), to get to a text mode area to tell it to use VESA framebuffer or something (something really low level) instead of "driver". It won't be great, but it might help. There are also other options that can help (turning ACPI to off, for instance) - see this:
Another option might be to find yourself an older NVidia card (something old and cheap that is compatible with your system and with the driver list) and try to install with that, then once you have things install, swapping out with your current card. If that doesn't work, then there is probably something else going on (motherboard chipset?) - which you may have to do some deep fiddling with boot options to get around (and you might say to yourself "this isn't worth my time" - which is understandable and your decision).
solder them back together once reinstalled. I've had a million fans dry up like
that now, big ones, small ones, mid sized ones. A little cleaning and oiling
and they are back in service.
Part of the problem is they'll use the cheapest fans possible with "oilite" bearings (sintered bronze bushings vacuum impregnated with oil), which only last for so long. This is all over in a PC (not just the graphics card). Better companies will use ball-bearing fans. Something I have found though, is I have cleaned a fan (like you describe that had froze up) that said it was a ball-bearing fan on the sticker, and turned out to be a bronze bushing fan instead; not a bearing around.
On the other hand, I've seen ball-bearing fans freeze up the same way. I think the other part of the problem is the amount of heat these poor fans have to deal with; just dries them out. Re-oiling them can help short term, but I've found that eventually you have to replace the fan (I can maybe get one or two extra cycles out before I have to). What I really don't understand is why the industry hasn't corrected the "upside down" orientation of cards? For most cards, it isn't an issue - but for graphics cards, being upside down means heat is trapped, and you have to have an active way to move that heat off, and most of the time, that method is only fighting against the natural tendency for heat to rise...
Oh i forgot to mention that i have a new mother board since way back then too. It's a more recent model.
Yes i've run into those bronze bearings too many times already. I find what works is to clean it out good as well as the shaft before oiling. Also, have you tried the new synthetic oils? They work much better and hold up longer. They sell a small bottle called "Liquid Bearings" but i havent tried it yet. I had tried synthetic automobile oil in the larger fans. In this smaller fan i used 3 in 1 oil i think, but it is still going strong. I can spot the fan failing by reading the temperature of the heatsink with a thermal probe and another right from the card chip.
What do you mean by upside down? The way this one is built it blows the heat out the top. I have HUGE case fans (2x250mm, 1x200mm) to get rid of the heat.
If it is at least a year old, you're probably OK there; I've only seen once where a mobo chipset wasn't supported by the Linux kernel, and that was during that whole Debian thing I explained earlier - furthermore, that wasn't due to the Linux kernel not supporting it, but more that the kernel in Debian doesn't get upgraded as frequently as you see in other distros like Ubuntu (which has its good and bad points). Debian tends to be more stable over time, but this also comes at a cost that you may "miss out" on cool features over time. Ubuntu (and other frequently updated distros) tend to get these features, but you are left with a potentially more unstable system. I haven't really seen much difference over time though (with the exception of very, very occasionally getting an update that messes something up in a strange fashion, but that is usually resolved by another update fairly soon - within 24 hours or sooner).
Yes i've run into those bronze bearings too many times already. I find what works is to clean it out good as well as the shaft before oiling. Also, have you tried the new synthetic oils? They work much better and hold up longer. They sell a small bottle called "Liquid Bearings" but i havent tried it yet. I had tried synthetic automobile oil in the larger fans. In this smaller fan i used 3 in 1 oil i think, but it is still going strong. I can spot the fan failing by reading the temperature of the heatsink with a thermal probe and another right from the card chip.
I haven't tried synthetic automobile oil, mainly because I don't use such on my vehicles (they're so old that I tend to just use heavier weight stuff) - and keeping a big bottle of oil around that you're only going to use droplets of on an occasional basis doesn't seem worth it to me. There's also the thing that some vehicle oils are bad for plastics and resins (so I've read).
I tend to use a combination of two lubricants when I re-lube fans: I use a liquid silicone oil "pen" that I purchased from Radio Shack years ago (heck, probably 2 decades ago, almost), and I also use a PTFE silicone gel lube called "Super Lube" (gel may not be the word - it's more like vaseline in consistency). The only time I use a real oil for re-lubrication is when I am doing something to small DC motors; there I'll sometimes use 3-in-1 or similar.
What do you mean by upside down? The way this one is built it blows the heat out the top. I have HUGE case fans (2x250mm, 1x200mm) to get rid of the heat.
Not the case - the cards. Most of the reason the cards are oriented like they are stems from historical reasons, I think, when PCs (and earlier machines with bus card interfaces built in) were oriented in the horizontal "desktop" style, which you don't see much anymore (if at all), beyond small-form-factor cases and the like. I guess because of this and "backward compatibility" each generation of cards just kept being oriented in the same fashion next to the earlier style. I just don't understand why they can't keep the bracket orientation the same, but mount the "hot parts" (with heatsinks and fans) on the other side of the card so that in the tower configuration, it would be on "top" to allow natural convection to help with the heat dissipation issues.
It was sloppy grammar, I'm sorry. I wanted to say "I work on XP SP3. I can't work on Windows 7, I would throw a machine running Windows 7 through the ... window if I worked on it".
By the way, conserning drivers ...
Since I "live" on the roof, I don't have internet access and I don't want to run an "ethernet" cable. The WiFi signal can't reach this spot. I bought a D-Link DWA-131 "Wireless Nano USB Adapter". This thing is neat.
The box mentions Windows in the system requirements. I tried it on a MacBook yesterday, I had to download some packages, an application, etc to get it to run.
I plugged it in my desktop computer running Ubuntu today (the computer was in the living room). I just plugged it and it showed me the network connection with full bars. I was in.
Now, to get the signal to the roof.. I had to hack this thing a bit. There was a metal box for some hair gel. I took the lid and I made a hole following the trace of the USB connector through it, so that the metallic lid would be between the USB extension cable, and the WiFi adapter, acting as a "dish", an "antenna" to be specific.
I tested without this thing of course. I couldn't get a signal. Not anywhere. Then put this lid and got connected
cr0sh:
Motherboard about 6 months old, but the model is probably at least a year old.
I'll have to fool around with Linux again one of these days. I dont really mind
the version i use now though which is a live version.
The synthetic for this little application is available in an 1 ounce bottle.
It sells for 7 bucks though.
Oh i see what you mean now about the graphics cards. This one has the air
blowing out to the side of the card, which if the case is standing up, actually
blows out the side toward the inside of the side of the case.
I had also used a regular hard drive cooler and strapped it to the side of the
card when the little fan first gave out. That took care of it pretty well being
a much larger fan (about 3 inch diameter vs 1 inch original).
I am keeping an eye on the remanufactured fan though to see how long it lasts.
If it doesnt last more than a year this way i'll invest in some synthetic and
try that next. It's a little tricky getting out but not too bad.
I use regular oil in my car too but am planning to go back to synthetic soon.
I was using it but after my last oil change i decided to go back to regular
because the cost difference was so large. But when i do the oil myself it
will only cost for the oil itself so no big deal.
Motherboard about 6 months old, but the model is probably at least a year old.
I'll have to fool around with Linux again one of these days. I dont really mind
the version i use now though which is a live version.
Yeah - it took me a long time to find a new tube of Super Lube; my original tube was almost gone. I was contemplating purchasing some off Amazon or Ebay, but then I found that Ace Hardware sold it. While looking around, though, I found this stuff that was basically silicone gel lubricant (actual gel) for cable pulling at Lowes - the only problem was that it came in a 1 quart bottle. I don't need -that- much...
Oh i see what you mean now about the graphics cards. This one has the air
blowing out to the side of the card, which if the case is standing up, actually
blows out the side toward the inside of the side of the case.
I had also used a regular hard drive cooler and strapped it to the side of the
card when the little fan first gave out. That took care of it pretty well being
a much larger fan (about 3 inch diameter vs 1 inch original).
I am keeping an eye on the remanufactured fan though to see how long it lasts.
If it doesnt last more than a year this way i'll invest in some synthetic and
try that next. It's a little tricky getting out but not too bad.
I use regular oil in my car too but am planning to go back to synthetic soon.
I was using it but after my last oil change i decided to go back to regular
because the cost difference was so large. But when i do the oil myself it
will only cost for the oil itself so no big deal.
At one time I read this blog where these guys got this brand new corvette to run a oil change test on. What they did was to use regular oil (10W30), nothing special (I think it was Penzoil or something) - and they changed it religiously every 3000 miles for a total of something like 15,000 miles (I don't really remember right). In between each change, they would send a test sample of the oil to a lab for testing (metals, viscosity - the whole 9 yards - not a cheap test by any means). They would publish their results.
Then they continued the same procedure, but instead of changing the oil, they would only change the filter, and "top up" the oil with a fresh install of 1 quart of the same weight (essentially replacing the filter's oil). They did the same tests.
What they found was is that there wasn't any difference in wear or anything by just "topping up"; the viscosity and metals content never really changed that much - certainly not enough to warrant complete oil changes, and not enough to justify synthetics, even in a "performance vehicle" like they were using.
I really wish I had saved the blog, because it was an interesting experiment. Now, with a real vehicle and stop-n-go traffic, you'd probably experience a different result. Plus, in order to know, you'd have to be able to send your oil off for testing every time you changed it to monitor the variables. They didn't say to "just top it up and change the filter" and you'd be ok. But they did seem to make a good case against the "every 3K" mantra that is in every owners manual.
That said - I always do the 3K thing anyhow - an oil change ain't that expensive, especially when you DIY.
I took a class from IBM called "Kernel Internals" for AIX. It was absolutely fascinating, the guy teaching the class wrote the ethernet drivers for IBM back in the day. He's forgotten more about asm than i'll probably ever learn. At the end of the class we created our own driver and inserted it into the kernel.
I asked him about optimizations between gcc and IBM's expensive C compiler. He proceeded to step through asm code talking about how many clock cycles each operation took. In short the expensive compiler was 60% faster than generic statements because gcc didn't have all the special, unique calls on that platform.
If it works for you, then stick with it - no need to change just to change (that can lead to more problems).
Yeah - it took me a long time to find a new tube of Super Lube; my original tube was almost gone. I was contemplating purchasing some off Amazon or Ebay, but then I found that Ace Hardware sold it. While looking around, though, I found this stuff that was basically silicone gel lubricant (actual gel) for cable pulling at Lowes - the only problem was that it came in a 1 quart bottle. I don't need -that- much...
I've done similar wacky things for cooling CPUs back in the Pentium/Pentium II days...
At one time I read this blog where these guys got this brand new corvette to run a oil change test on. What they did was to use regular oil (10W30), nothing special (I think it was Penzoil or something) - and they changed it religiously every 3000 miles for a total of something like 15,000 miles (I don't really remember right). In between each change, they would send a test sample of the oil to a lab for testing (metals, viscosity - the whole 9 yards - not a cheap test by any means). They would publish their results.
Then they continued the same procedure, but instead of changing the oil, they would only change the filter, and "top up" the oil with a fresh install of 1 quart of the same weight (essentially replacing the filter's oil). They did the same tests.
What they found was is that there wasn't any difference in wear or anything by just "topping up"; the viscosity and metals content never really changed that much - certainly not enough to warrant complete oil changes, and not enough to justify synthetics, even in a "performance vehicle" like they were using.
I really wish I had saved the blog, because it was an interesting experiment. Now, with a real vehicle and stop-n-go traffic, you'd probably experience a different result. Plus, in order to know, you'd have to be able to send your oil off for testing every time you changed it to monitor the variables. They didn't say to "just top it up and change the filter" and you'd be ok. But they did seem to make a good case against the "every 3K" mantra that is in every owners manual.
That said - I always do the 3K thing anyhow - an oil change ain't that expensive, especially when you DIY.
Now that you mention it, i've always wondered why the air blows out the way it does from the graphics card. The thing is, the fans on the side of the case blow air INTO the case, which means it is blowing AT the graphics card side, and that is the side that blows the air OUT, so the air from the graphics card is blowing against the case fan air flow. That's not really correct. It should flow WITH the case fan flow. The other thing is that the case fan flow as is works the best with the other stuff like the CPU and MoBo chips, so the case fan in that area can not be reversed (to blow outward). It has to blow inwards. This is one reason why i liked putting the bigger fan on the side, but that's not that great either when it comes to getting the flows matched because the heatsink itself directs much of the air flow (direction). The alternative and maybe best would be to have it blow DOWN on the card, so the air flow is the same as the case fans. It's a little unfortunate that then the air would blow at the top or bottom of another card right next to the graphics card :-(
I took a class from IBM called "Kernel Internals" for AIX. It was absolutely fascinating, the guy teaching the class wrote the ethernet drivers for IBM back in the day. He's forgotten more about asm than i'll probably ever learn. At the end of the class we created our own driver and inserted it into the kernel.
I asked him about optimizations between gcc and IBM's expensive C compiler. He proceeded to step through asm code talking about how many clock cycles each operation took. In short the expensive compiler was 60% faster than generic statements because gcc didn't have all the special, unique calls on that platform.
Now that you mention it, i've always wondered why the air blows out the way it does from the graphics card. The thing is, the fans on the side of the case blow air INTO the case, which means it is blowing AT the graphics card side, and that is the side that blows the air OUT, so the air from the graphics card is blowing against the case fan air flow. That's not really correct. It should flow WITH the case fan flow. The other thing is that the case fan flow as is works the best with the other stuff like the CPU and MoBo chips, so the case fan in that area can not be reversed (to blow outward). It has to blow inwards. This is one reason why i liked putting the bigger fan on the side, but that's not that great either when it comes to getting the flows matched because the heatsink itself directs much of the air flow (direction). The alternative and maybe best would be to have it blow DOWN on the card, so the air flow is the same as the case fans. It's a little unfortunate that then the air would blow at the top or bottom of another card right next to the graphics card :-(
This will be my last post on this - it's kinda off-topic to the thread, and I bet if you started a new thread, you might generate some interesting discussion. My only thoughts are: The ad-hoc nature of PC case/fan/heat evolution has made it very difficult to move the heat properly from a case, unless you are very careful up-front with the case selected, the fans used, their placement, and where things are on the motherboard, video card (if one is being used), etc. In other words, it has to be a "ground-up" approach to get it right on a self-build. PC manufacturers, like Dell and Apple, of course have the luxury of being able to design their own cases and such to work with heat dissipation properly. When you are doing upgrades and such, switch cases, fans, adding this or that, new motherboard/cpu/etc - that's where things tend to fall apart in this area, and you just have to do your best. For my stuff, I tend to try to have a fan on the "front" of the tower case sucking air in low to the ground, and try to exhaust the air at the top/rear, via the power supply (and top fan, if one is available). If there isn't a top fan spot, I try to add an extra fan at the rear. I let the graphics card be as it will be; they're all oriented wrong anyhow. I suppose a fan on the side of the case cover, right over the slots, blowing outward would help, but you wouldn't want it more powerful than the fans in the power supply (so they don't work against each other). It's a difficult balance.
I don't know much about Linux I use Windows 7 OS but would like to use Mac OS or Linux OS if probably got a chance to do, where liking is concerned my vote goes to windows XP OS as it is quite user friendly OS.
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