Is this non-isolated mains LED bulb illegal?

[4pyros]

Just another trolling rant in support of the inductively coupled LED lighting system which our esteemed OP evangelises at every available opportunity.

JimB

He is trying to debunk other lamp manufacters, so he can sell his "going to sweep the world" thing.
I am surprised he has not gone there yet in this thread.

 

[tcmtech]

He is trying to debunk other lamp manufacters, so he can sell his "going to sweep the world" thing.
I am surprised he has not gone there yet in this thread.

This thread is not providing him the needed design feedback (no one is designing his 'save the world lighting systems' circuit for him here) so it got dropped for the time being.

 

[4pyros]

It's going to sweep the world tho.

 

[tcmtech]

The world has already been swept vacuumed and new throw rugs laid down.

The OP is a decade or two (if not more) late for the design party.

 

[ronsimpson]

The world has already been swept vacuumed and new throw rugs laid down.

There are no easy ways to make money. All the easy ways were done years ago. There are not many hard ways left. That leaves really hard ways.

Ideas; the same thing.

 

[Brevor]

One of my first bosses had this strategy. He was basically inept at his own job but fairly good at getting others to do his work for him where he could then take credit for work he never did and for ideas that were well out of his own capacity to formulate.

Interesting, I think at one time we both worked for the same boss.

 

[ronsimpson]

Interesting, I think at one time we both worked for the same boss.

Wow that &%$@@# old fart really gets around.

take credit for work he never did

They must teach this in management school.

 

[JoeJester]

I agree you can do it cheap with bias winding regulation, but that's not an accurate or efficient way to do it, as we expect in lighting, where we demand high standards of efficiency.

Which government document defines these "high standards of efficiency"?

 

[tcmtech]

Wow that &%$@@# old fart really gets around.

Since then I have had a few bosses and managers like that. For me they make my work day more entertaining in the effect that they give me a the opportunities to make an active effort to get them to undermine themselves.

What has always given me a good grin is how people who do this sort of stuff always seem be convinced that they are the smarter than everyone else in the deal and that no one is aware of what they are doing?

 

[Flyback]

no Gov doc defines it, ..because the governers don't understand it.....yet....but when the multiple "resistance enhanced" leds come to our products, and consume too much power due to efficiency, then it will be explained to them.

 

[alec_t]

Which government document defines these "high standards of efficiency"?

...and if this is a world-shattering development [] then which government?

 

[Flyback]

world shattering development?....you must be speaking of the new led lightbulb and its associated dimmer (as below)......theres no phase cutting here, a simple omisision of a mains half cycle, sliced out at the zero crossings, when a pushbutton is pressed, signals to the lamp to dim down a bit (or up a bit)

 

[tcmtech]

world shattering development?....you must be speaking of the new led lightbulb and its associated dimmer (as below)......theres no phase cutting here, a simple omisision of a mains half cycle, sliced out at the zero crossings, when a pushbutton is pressed, signals to the lamp to dim down a bit (or up a bit)

So the customer has to buy an application specific dimmer to work with an application specific bulb of which getting said dimmer installed in place of the old one in the wall will require the hiring of a licensed electrician for the vast majority of people.

Whereas all of your competitors have their dimmable LED lighting systems based on compatibility with most standard dimmer on the market already.

Any realistic time scale for when your new super efficient LED and dimmer system break even on the initial investments?

Right now I am seeing a up front purchase price of $10 a bulb plus another $10 for the application specific dimmer plus at least $200 for the electrician to install said application specific dimmer.

Right now a 100 watt equivalent LED light draws ~15 watts and has a realistic service life of 50K hours at best.
Say your LED comes in at 10 watts for the same light output inits life on 20 cent a KW electricity it would save about, (50,000 x .2 x .015 = $150) Vs ( 50,000 x .2 x .01 = $100) or about $50 in its life which would be 25% of what the electrician cost. Just to break even on purchase costs you would have to run roughly 9 bulbs back to back for 50K hours each (450K hours total) or about 52 years no stop. Now in realistic usage patterns that would take 200 - 500+ years to break even.

Personally I don't see this design sweeping anything. The base numbers even with high priced electricity and low priced bulbs and dimmers and install don't add up to any saving anywhere within any realistic time frame.

 

[Flyback]

I think if people want to dim, then they pay for it, and are prepared to do so....otherwise they just buy a lower power bulb. As you can tell, the dimmer shown will definitely dim smoothly down to zero. {No phase cut dimmer/dimmable led bulb} combination can be guaranteed to do that.
Also, the government will give a grant towards it, because of the vastly increased power factor due to no phase cutting.

When we started driving cars.......we stopped using horses to pull our cars along.
When we started using led lightbulbs, we will stop using dimmers (phase cut) that were meant for incandescent.

using a phase cut dimmer with a led bulb is like pulling a car along with a horse.

The gov will pick up the tab.....as it sorts their power factor

 

[tcmtech]

When we started using led lightbulbs, we will stop using dimmers (phase cut) that were meant for incandescent.

using a phase cut dimmer with a led bulb is like pulling a car along with a horse.

The gov will pick up the tab.....as it sorts their power factor

Who is this WE" you keep referring too? As my recent travels halfway around the world as shown me LED and dimmable LED have been here for a lot longer than just a little while and it clearly works well with the standard dimmers already in place when its designed right.

No the government does not pick up the tab. They are the middleman who passes the tab on to the taxpayer with interest and handling fees added. I pay taxes to have good roads good military and law enforcement and the freedom to travel around my country unrestricted in whatever type of vehicle I want.

I DO NOT WANT MORE OF MY TAXES GOING TO HELP PAY FOR LAME POORLY THOUGHT OUT OVERPRICED "GREEN TREEHUGGER ENVIRO FEEL GOOD CRAP" DESIGNED BY PEOPLE LIKE YOU SO THAT YOU CAN FEEL GOOD ABOUT YOURSELVES AND YOUR ACCOMPLISHMENT TO DRAIN EVEN MORE MONEY OUT OF THE HANDS OF GOOD WORKING PEOPLE LIKE ME AT MY EXPENSE. PERIOD.

If your product needs government assistance to make it in the marketplace because it can't stand on its own without it then it is clearly it's not capable or worthy of being there in the first place.

 

[Flyback]

ok no gov't funding, but I believe a sponsor will surface..........the gov't will help find the sponsor

Firstly, I am sure we agree on one point..that is, Triac (ie leading edge) dimmers have gotta go because they are damned nuisance with led bulbs and cfls.

So we're left with trailing edge dimmers. -Just crack one open....its about the same complexity as what I already propose above....so bye bye trailing edge dimmers...the ICs that work with trailing dimmers have special functionality bult in at considerable cost......whats the point in that?...my dimmer can work with standard normal pwm controllers.
So yeah youre right actually , the gov't wont need to get involved....and some sponsor will be rich from the pdf's I show.

 

[ronsimpson]

Which government document defines these "high standards of efficiency"?

-When I was doing automotive design the government dictated fuel efficiency.
-In this area all new house construction must have 6 inches of insulation in the walls. About 3x that in the roof. Old house modifications must also. Global warming.
-Hot water heaters and furnaces must be very good. All old furnaces can not be reused or sold. If you modify more than 14% of your house you must replace them and update the insulation.
-Incandescent bulbs can not be made.
- This year I tried to move a house one mile. The government said the house had to meet new house insulation and heating standards. I was willing to build the walls out two more inches but I could not raise the roof 15 inches. We destroyed the house.
-When I was designing TVs, monitors and computer power supplies we had to make them 'green'. We added power down modes and PFC.
-My cars/trucks have to be tested for emission every year, (every other year for some). Indirectly "efficiency".
-I could go on but I need to conserve key strokes. I am near my energy limit.

 

[alec_t]

Flyback, are you running a macro or something which automatically marks every post as 'Flyback likes this'? I can't believe you actually like those posts which are, shall we say, less than encouraging responses to yours.

 

[JoeJester]

Put your idea on the market and let the market decide.

no Gov doc defines it, ..because the governers don't understand it.....yet....but when the multiple "resistance enhanced" leds come to our products, and consume too much power due to efficiency, then it will be explained to them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-out_of_incandescent_light_bulbs

The standards will go as high as the market can handle.

on edit:

The government may not have defined it but they sure are driving it. And the price of "energy efficiency" is a lot more than incandescent lamps.

So, where does your government stand on this issue? Do you have the equivalent of the U.S. EPA?