How To Build An Ionic Breeze

[D.J.]

Hi everyone,

I'm sure everyone has seen those air purifiers on tv called " Ionic Breeze ". Does anyone know how to build one or how they work?

I assume by the name they generate an ionic wind by using high voltage plates (like an antigravity lifter) but how does the dirt stick to the plate, does it become charged?

Thanks in advance

D.J.

 

[zachtheterrible]

I think that the dirt passes throgh a grid that is negatively or positively charged so that the dirt gets charged. Then it gets stuck to a plate which is charged with the opposite polarity.

 

[D.J.]

Thanks for the quick reply.

So does it matter if the I use DC or AC? Would the AC power pulsing back and forth on the two plates effect anything?

Besides that, I just need a couple if metal plates with a 10 kv potential?

Thanks in advance

D.J.

 

[Justin98TransAm]

I read this somewhere else It was probably on this board maybe searh for it. I seem to remember something about being sure to generate negative ions. I think. Anyway supposedly there was a study done that shows that positive ions affect your mood differently than negative ions... er something. I probably just helped confuse, but i swear I read something like that somewhere.

 

[D.J.]

Thanks,

I just did a search on this site and found a topic like this. Only looked over a few post but it looks like it will be helpful.

Should I use AC or DC:?:

Yes different ions will cause differnet moods or pains. The saying " The negative effect of positive ions ". Negative ions are good and positive ions are bad.

Although I don't think I will be generating any ions, just sucking them in and blowing out clean air.

Maybe my air cleaner will float in the air when I turn it on :lol: with a high enough voltage i'am sure it would.

Thanks this is helpful

D.J.

 

[Oznog]

It must be DC, AC will not work.

The scheme is similar to air ionizers, except the design of the plates is optimized to cause air movement. The HV can be generated with a multiplier, an array of high voltage capacitors and diodes, or a transformer with a half wave or fullwave bridge diodes.

I'm not sure what voltage they use. Do not go too high or it will split the oxygen into ozone, which is a lung and eye irritant in sufficient quantities.

You might be interested to know that while ionic air cleaners are excellent at removing large particles like smoke, they were found to have no useful effect whatsoever at filtering out allergens, chemicals, pollution, etc. Consumer Reports reported to that in their test results when comparing them to HEPA filters and Sharper Image who makes the Ionic Breeze had the audacity to sue them for contradicting their marketing claims. Didn't work.

There are those who claim negative ions make you feel better and positive ions make you feel worse. I don't buy either claim.

 

[D.J.]

Thanks Oznog,

How come AC won't work?

"There are those who claim negative ions make you feel better and positive ions make you feel worse. I don't buy either claim."

They should be right, why else do animals act wierd when theirs a full moon. the light from the moon causes positive ions (which are bad).

Heres a Basic Ion polarity forcaster:
http://superforce.com/

Some other places like HAARP have me convinced.

Sorry but still I don't undestand why AC won't work. Probably something simple that I am not seeing :?

Thanks

D.J.

 

[Roboticinfo]

reply

Sorry for the bad news but it has been reported that it does not do what is supposed todo.

There have been law suites for the false advertising and elec.

The technoligies exsist but that one is a fake.

There us kits for a mini ion purif......

 

[D.J.]

Hi Roboticinfo,

Well to bad for Ionic breeze. :cry:

I am planning on building one myself. I know the principle of the machine works, all I need it to do is collect dust and hair. Although I don't understand why you couldn't use AC power. :?

My Dad and I might build one, have lots of animals in our house!

Thanks

D.J.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

Although I don't understand why you couldn't use AC power. :?

Because you're wanting to create negative ions, if you use AC you will be creating both negative and positive ones!.

They are commonly fed from AC mains though, and use a Walton Cockcroft multiplier to both rectify and multiply the mains voltage to a high enough value.

As already suggested, I can't say that it will help anything, but it WILL precipitate plenty of dust out of the air! - which has got to be a good thing?.

 

[D.J.]

Hi Nigel,

Thanks for the reply.

Really Sorry but I still dont understand. I am generating an ion wind. Becuase of the high voltage being used on the two plates their is a large capacitance, this will attract ions on to the plate, not generate them, right?

Is it becuase of the AC power pulsing the polarity back in forth between the plates, that their would not be a steady flow of ions?

Thanks

D.J.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

Hi Nigel,

Thanks for the reply.

Really Sorry but I still dont understand. I am generating an ion wind. Becuase of the high voltage being used on the two plates their is a large capacitance, this will attract ions on to the plate, not generate them, right?

Is it becuase of the AC power pulsing the polarity back in forth between the plates, that their would not be a steady flow of ions?

Can't say I know a lot about it?, but DC is commonly used - if you feed AC to a capacitor it will pass current, which presumably isn't what you want to do?.

 

[D.J.]

Hi Nigel,

Alright, so I need to use AC becuase of the capacitors not becuase of the ion flow.

Does any one know if it would matter if I used AC or DC on the plates :?:

Thanks for everyone's help

D.J.

 

[stevez]

The IB appears to be an electrostatic precipitator, exception being that there is no fan. It must depend on normal air currents to bring particle laden air to it.

An electrostatic precipitator usually delivers high voltage DC to some wires that serve to charge particles moving past - and collection plates that are oppositely charged. The charged particles are attracted to the plates. Google on electrostatic precipitators for some better explanations.
AC probably wouldn't work because dust particles would be attracted the repelled as the polarity changed.

Along with the IB, they make electrostatic cleaners for home use either to stand along or in place of or addition to furnace filters. Commercially they were used to take particulate out of tobacco smoke (smoke-eater was one name given to the device). Industrial applications include emissions control systems for boilers, foundries and other smoke, oil mist or other small particle emitters.

 

[D.J.]

Hi Stevez,

"AC probably wouldn't work because dust particles would be attracted the repelled as the polarity changed. "

That makes perfect sense, thanks

"The IB appears to be an electrostatic precipitator, exception being that there is no fan. It must depend on normal air currents to bring particle laden air to it. "

Well their is no fan becuase using two high voltage plate (around 5 to 10kvolts ) would cause an ion wind.

I assume the same principle applies hear as it does with antigravity lifters. They have a top and bottom plate that are charged with high voltage. The positive ions in the air attract to the negativley charged bottom plate and are repled from the positively charged top plate, this causes an upward thrust. An ion "wind" :wink:

Thanks for everyones help,

D.J.

 

[mechie]

Ionisers

**broken link removed**
As said before, you do need DC to ionise, AC will cancel itself out.

I built one of these ages ago (an ioniser, not an ion breeze?) for a bird room to reduce airborne dust, the wall behind the ioniser caught quite a bit of dirt and got wiped with a damp cloth to remove the dirt every couple of weeks. The design I used was from 'Electronics Today International' magazine about 15 years back. The magazine no longer exists :cry:
The circuit is pretty standard, that shown in my link is the same. The instructions I remember reading said to cover those output resistors in epoxy resin to stop ozone being emitted from their connections and reduce the risk of HT tracking across them.

Don't miss the resistors out, too much voltage will create ozone.

I remember being able to feel a 'cool breeze' on my cheek when standing very close to the emitter. I used a shotgun cleaning brush :shock: (a small brass bottle brush) as the emitter as it has lots of sharp points to emit from.

OOH! just remembered - another experiment I did ...
My daughter was about six or eight at the time, she had long blonde hair!
I got her to stand on a thick polystyrene tile and hold the emitter, this slowly charged her up a couple of kV and made her hair float in the air 8)
...
then she touched a friend and squealed - they are no longer friends :roll:

 

[D.J.]

Hi Mechie,

"I got her to stand on a thick polystyrene tile and hold the emitter, this slowly charged her up a couple of kV and made her hair float in the air Cool
...
then she touched a friend and squealed - they are no longer friends Rolling Eyes"

That sounds like a fun experiment to try on someone :lol:

Do you know what voltage would cause ozone, sure it's pretty high. Would 10kv be ok. It would probably depend on the size of the plates wouldn't it?

D.J.

 

[mechie]

Ozone production

I'm not sure of the voltage, I remember something more like 5kV as the start of ozone production, a couple of kV is enough to ionise air.
The voltage multiplier in my last link will produce ozone if you don't use dropper resistors on the output but ..
BEWARE
Make sure No-one can go near it if you try this - the output current may well be LETHAL, even after turning it off - for a period of possibly several minutes (depends on component leakage rates, humidity etc.)

I think the "size of the plates" won't make much difference, if any emitter is efficient (lots of sharp points) then it will emit more ions (or should that be "ionise air faster") -
but because of the series resistors there will be a voltage drop proportional to the ionising rate so the output voltage will drop and reduce the ionising rate to find a balance between emitter efficiency and available current.
To me, a 'plate' means a rectangle, four corners. The corners will be the emitters, not the flat plate ????
In my last posting's link is a demo of a 'rotary emitter', using a tin foil rotor, only the pins at the end of the arms emit ions (at least in theory).
This 'ion breeze' pushes the rotor around, so if the rotor can't turn the air will be pushed away instead.

 

[D.J.]

I am not going to be ionizing the emitted air am I? :?

The positive and negative plates will be in place. Positive on the input and negative an the output. The air is positivily charged by the positive plate and will be attracted to the negative plate. The negative plate collects the positivily charged dust. The air emitted will be dust free but not ionized.

So I am not ionizing the air emitted, I am ionizing the air input and collecting dirt. The flow of ions causes the air to flow.

This is how it works right :?:

D.J.

 

[chemelec]

The Voltage for an Ionized Air Cleaner should NOT Exceed 5,000 Volts.

Between 4,500 and 5,000 volts DC is Perfect.
Above 5,000 Volts creates Lots of Ozone.
Below 4,500 Volts Doesn't create an Effective Static Condition.

It Must be DC.

As to the "Wind", it is more a Convection Air flow.
Personally "Ionic breeze" units are Way OVER PRICED JUNK.

Stick a fan in it and it will work Much Better for cleaning the air.

The Series Resistor does NOT limit the Voltage.
It Limits the CURRENT and Protects the Supply against SHORTS.
This can occur if Too much Dust builds up on the plates.