Household product with offline PSU?

[Flyback]

Hi, can you think of any Household consumer product, which is mains powered, and has an offline PSU in line with the mains cable, then another cable leading from the PSU to the product?
(We can only come up with laptops, there is literally nothing else?)

 

[For The Popcorn]

It’s a 3 wire connector on that one.

Hmmm. That particular picture from web does show three pins. That is not the usual case in my experience. As I started, I have used many of these. The one pictured below is the first one I found this morning after 30 seconds of searching.

1. 2. There is no 3.

Sometimes, these will have the cords attached when you buy them. A two-prong IEC connector is weird.

The picture clearly shows vent holes as well.

 

[For The Popcorn]

Posted on another thread here, here is the label on one of these supplies. It's rated for 110 – 265 volt operation, with UL and CE markings, so presumably it's passed test requirements.

 

[Flyback]

Yes the following has a fan, so it says, so you have got to assume it has vent holes.....tho' some with fans dont have vent holes......it doesnt show actual vent holes...ie, the view into them, showing the internal electronics......so i am still not totally convinced there are vent holes,......and after all, they would make it fail the "water ingress" test. (as detailed before in post #19)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/YCCTEAM-Supply-Adapter-Replacement-Voltage100-240V/dp/B01CNF1ILE/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?keywords=xbox+360+power+supply&qid=1683621484&sr=8-1-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&psc=1

..In the kindly supplied post of #21 above, you cant see into those holes, and it makes me wonder if they are really open to the innards.

If it was allowed cooling holes, then surely all power bricks (including laptop chargers) would have vent holes?, as it makes them easier to design, and they can be made smaller.

I am just wondering at what point we need to pay our $2.40, so we have access to the relevant EN safety standard for 24 hrs on EVS.EE website in Estonia.....at the moment, we dont even know what standard calls this out......EN62368 is a safety standard, but is it the one for this case?

Accessing Standards For Less Than 30€

You might think that if certain rules apply to all companies of an industry that those rules should be freely available. Like law. Law texts are freely available. That makes sense. Because everyone in a country must comply with the law. And it’s easier to comply with the law if you can read it...

openregulatory.com

I suspect the power bricks with vent holes, if they really are that, are for use in eg Countries outside the EU and USA.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

I suspect the power bricks with vent holes, if they really are that, are for use in eg Countries outside the EU and USA.

I suspect, as usual, you don't have the faintest idea what you're talking about?.

 

[Papabravo]

I suspect, as usual, you don't have the faintest idea what you're talking about?.

People must uphold their reputations after all.

 

[For The Popcorn]

You can speculate and say why something can't possibly be true because it doesn't agree with your interpretation of a standard, and speculate that the only way this could possibly be true is if they do this for non-US/non-EU countries.

What I personally would do, being the incredibly lazy person I am, is ask the guy who posted a picture of one of these supplies in his hand and claims to have at least several of them (and has written about then several times in the past) if he could verify if these supplies have ventilation holes.

But "the easy way" never seems to be your path and besides, he might lie about it to you.

Geez


To be fair, I didn't make it entirely clear that "finding one in 30 seconds" and the picture in post #21 referred to a physical unit in my hand. But that post and post 15 both mention that I have many of these supplies.

 

[Flyback]

Thanks, this is interesting, so why arent they all having vent holes?
Most eg laptop chargers are totally sealed plastic.
Why constrain themselves to this?
Does anybody know which EN standard refers to this?...in relation to household consumer product , offline power supplies ?
Then we can get our $2.4 and buy 24hrs access to the standard from EVS.EE in Estonia.

 

[For The Popcorn]

Here are pictures of two Microsoft XBox changers (both from Microsoft).

》I was wrong about the input voltage range.

》These chargers have similar ratings, but the model numbers are different and one of them has a 2 pin IEC connector, the other 3 pins.

》Both chargers have ventilation holes on each end and an internal fan. Filter foam can be seen on one end. They may be baffles between the vent holes and internal components.

 

[For The Popcorn]

And here are two more chargers. These may be replacement chargers, as they are marked in Chinese.

》Output Current is slightly less.

》All comments from above post apply.

 

[For The Popcorn]

I'm sure you're thinking "that's just for the US. Surely it must be illegal here wouldn't you agree?"

Doing extensive research online, consuming AT LEAST two minutes, I found a take apart video of the model with a European voltage rating. This version has exactly the same vent holes.

Additionally, a second video documents internal features, including a schematic.

The Xbox 360 only sold 87 MILLION units during its lifetime. I rather suspect they complied with appropriate standards. I have seen other power bricks with vent holes. My previous recommendation still applies – go to a computer recycler or used computer store. Open you eyes and LOOK around. See what other ventilated power bricks you can find. If you find some, buy them. Take them apart (you do have screwdrivers, right?) and see their construction.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

I'm sure you're thinking "that's just for the US. Surely it must be illegal here wouldn't you agree?"

He's either just making up legislation?, reading irrelevant legislation?, or completely misunderstanding what it says? - there's no issue with vent holes in external PSU's, why would they be?.

I'm really horrified with the questions he asks - he claims to be a design engineer for switch-mode power supplies, but he seems to have little or no understanding of anything electrical or electronic.

 

[Papabravo]

He's either just making up legislation?, reading irrelevant legislation?, or completely misunderstanding what it says? - there's no issue with vent holes in external PSU's, why would they be?.

I'm really horrified with the questions he asks - he claims to be a design engineer for switch-mode power supplies, but he seems to have little or no understanding of anything electrical or electronic.

It certainly is getting harder for him to uphold the tatters of whatever reputation there was.

 

[Flyback]

It certainly is getting harder for him to uphold the tatters of whatever reputation there was.

Thanks, i have indeed made every effort to rid myself of any "reputation" whatsoever, preferring the "tatters".

- there's no issue with vent holes in external PSU's, why would they be?.

....thanks, so why are all laptop chargers not having any vent holes?.

Please observe the following...

...offline 300w and totally sealed plastic......would deffo have benefitted from vent holes, but none used.

Thanks to For The Popcorn, for the great vid...

You can see this PSU has no active PFC and would not pass EU regs.(08:42 of the vid)....so it couldnt be used in the EU.
The PSU is also dead (until he cleans it), due to probably water ingress, as he says.
This vid adds further to the belief that its actually illegal to have vent holes in a PSU for a household consumer product in the EU.

 

[kubeek]

Why would they be ilegal? They are just so much unpractical that users would hate to buy it. If you havent noticed such psus lay in the dust on the ground all year long and if they really needed those holes for cooling then the psu wouldnt last long before it overheats.

 

[Flyback]

..Thanks, ...illegal due to non compliance with EN61000-3-2

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

..Thanks, ...illegal due to non compliance with EN61000-3-2

Why?, you're just making it up - or you don't understand what it says. There's no such restriction on external PSU's, many of which are vented and even may include fans (as XBox ones do).

 

[Flyback]

EN61000-3-2 is a legal requirement
If you EU2.4 you can see it here..(24 hours viewing token)

EVS-EN IEC 61000-3-2:2019+A1:2021

Consolidated version of EN IEC 61000-3-2 specifies limits for harmonic current emissions (IEC 61000-3-2:2018). Purchase here.

www.evs.ee

As seen in here

https://www.meanwelldirect.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/sites/55/2018/04/SPV-300-Series-Specification_MWD.pdf

...it is a legal requirement

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

EN61000-3-2 is a legal requirement

Then I suggest you find someone who understands it to explain it to you?.

The video explains nothing - consumer goods aren't supposed to be water proof - and regulations don't expect them to be.

 

[Flyback]

EU safety regs require them to be water tight if mains voltages are in them....it is a legal requirement.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

EU safety regs require them to be water tight if mains voltages are in them....it is a legal requirement.

Believe what you like - the rest of the world, the EU, and the UK understand differently. All mains power supplies have mains in them - and the vast majority have ventilation holes in them.

Perhaps you missed it?, but we're no longer in the EU anyway