HF Circuit 100 v 50-100 megahertz.

[Trauts22]

You growing Cannabis ?

Lol. Are you asking because of the results I appear to be getting?
There's a lot of heat from the bulbs too, but the coil gets barely warm.

 

[rumpfy]

To generate a high frequency power source, you would have to use electronic stuff and whichever way you do it, the efficiency of the generator is not going to be more than 50%.
That means if you take the mains power and run your lamps you will need to pay for the power you use. If you use the electronic approach you will need to use twice as much power from the power mains so it will cost you twice as much to run your lamps.
If you use a ac to dc rectifier arrangement and run your lamps on DC, you will have an efficiency of around 90 %, so you will pay a 10% premium.
Thats as basic as I can get.
In post 13 you ask where you can get this equipment and then in post 15 you imply you have the solution already. Frankly, post 15 sounds like gobbledygook to me.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

I thought that power is watts. Am I mistaken? My knowledge is very limited.

Power is watts (pretty well), but you're not measuring anything accurately, particularly the light output from the lamps.

As you're measuring 1.7Kw going in, hopefully most of that is going to the lamps.

 

[Trauts22]

In post 13 you ask where you can get this equipment and then in post 15 you imply you have the solution already. Frankly, post 15 sounds like gobbledygook to me.

In between those posts I was looking on eBay.

 

[Trauts22]

As you're measuring 1.7Kw going in

I'm not able to accurately measure anything on the output side. All I can say is that the wires are speaker wire (The number 7140304 on the reel means nothing to me, but may to you). The coil barely gets warm, so I estimate not more than 3 amps. I can safely touch both terminals on the lamps at the same time, so that cannot be more than 100 volts. These are the only 'measurements' I have and they indicate to me around 300 watts. 1.7Kw would imply either 567 volts at 3 amps or 17 amps at 100 volts. One would kill me, the other would burn out the wire.

 

[tomizett]

I've nothing to add from a technical perspective to what others have already said - converting the frequency won't increase the power or improve efficiency.

That said, I just wanted to show respect to Trauts for coming at the problem with an open mind and an inquisitive attitude. Don't be put off, keep learning and you'll get your head round the problem and understand why things work the way they do (who knows, you *may* even prove us all wrong...).

 

[Trauts22]

(who knows, you *may* even prove us all wrong...).

Thank you Tomizett - I'm not trying to prove anyone wrong - just observing, trying to understand what is happening and how I might replicate the effect without the cumbersome induction hob.
I was intending to look at the frequency (without realising the implications of setting up a broadcasting station!) because that was the only thing I could see that might be affecting the circuit. I had read somewhere that halogen bulbs burn brighter at higher frequencies.
Can anyone tell me in layman's terms what is happening between the induction hob and the coil? In order to start the output circuit, I have to pull the coil aside and place a steel plate over the hob to make it think it has a pan on it, then gently slide the coil into position (as I slide the coil into position I can feel a gentle buzz in the plate, which I presume is some sort of resonance effect). As soon as the halogens light I can remove the steel plate. Although the plate will quickly heat up if left in place, the coil on its own remains cool(ish).
The Gegene has a bifilar wound coil, but I have found that it works quite well with a single winding.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

I'm not able to accurately measure anything on the output side. All I can say is that the wires are speaker wire (The number 7140304 on the reel means nothing to me, but may to you). The coil barely gets warm, so I estimate not more than 3 amps. I can safely touch both terminals on the lamps at the same time, so that cannot be more than 100 volts. These are the only 'measurements' I have and they indicate to me around 300 watts. 1.7Kw would imply either 567 volts at 3 amps or 17 amps at 100 volts. One would kill me, the other would burn out the wire.

So where do you imagine the power has disappeared to? - perhaps the clue is that the lights are working

Feeling the temperature of the wire is utterly meaningless, as is 'not dying from touching the wires'

 

[Trauts22]

Feeling the temperature of the wire is utterly meaningless

Innacurate, yes - meaningless, no. The circuit comprises tiny wires that would burn out with anything more than about 5 amps I would think. I could be killed by 240 volts. I think this more or less sets the limits - not very scientific I grant you, but the best I've got. The six halogens total 2400 watts and are burning very brightly (subjective and inaccurate I know, but good enough for these purposes). The wires are quite cool, so I estimate about 3 amps in the circuit. That means there should be about 800 volts - plenty to kill me. Alternatively, at max 100 volts (safe for me to touch), there should be 24 amps and the circuit will fry. Is there something wrong with my logic?

 

[tcmtech]

The six halogens total 2400 watts and are burning very brightly (subjective and inaccurate I know, but good enough for these purposes). The wires are quite cool, so I estimate about 3 amps in the circuit. That means there should be about 800 volts - plenty to kill me. Alternatively, at max 100 volts (safe for me to touch), there should be 24 amps and the circuit will fry. Is there something wrong with my logic?

Yes there is a lot wrong with your logic.

At higher alternating current frequencies something called the skin effect comes into play which for the most part means that HF AC currents only travel on the surface of the conductor which means when touching your wires you are a very poor conductor of HF electrical currents thus you will not feel a high voltage HF current like you would a normal line voltage and frequency current.

Next without knowing what wire gauge you are actually using guessing at how much current your coil can or is handling based on touch is meaningless.

Last observing incandescent light bulbs and estimating their actual input power levels by visual observation is again meaningless.

What could be happening is you are actually producing a fairly high voltage at a high enough frequency that your coil shaped bulb filaments are working in a inductive impedance mode more than a pure resistive mode which means that they could have a inductive impedance several times higher than their normal resistance thus allowing them to work at their normal wattage range but at 800+ volts input yet only be taking a few hundred milliamps of current.

Skin effect makes you feel the high voltage incorrectly and inductive impedance of the coiled filaments is letting them run at a far higher input voltage without burning up and your whole measuring and reasoning system is basically dumb.

Thats my thoughts.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

Innacurate, yes - meaningless, no. The circuit comprises tiny wires that would burn out with anything more than about 5 amps I would think. I could be killed by 240 volts. I think this more or less sets the limits - not very scientific I grant you, but the best I've got. The six halogens total 2400 watts and are burning very brightly (subjective and inaccurate I know, but good enough for these purposes). The wires are quite cool, so I estimate about 3 amps in the circuit. That means there should be about 800 volts - plenty to kill me. Alternatively, at max 100 volts (safe for me to touch), there should be 24 amps and the circuit will fry. Is there something wrong with my logic?

Yes, absolutely everything is wrong with your logic

What voltage are the bulbs? - as they are pretty close to maximum brightness, then they are been fed with pretty close to their normal voltage, and obviously pretty close to their normal current as well. If you feed too low a voltage to the bulbs they will be excessively dull, and too high (even by a fairly smallish amount) will blow them.

You already know you're feeding 1700W to them - why do you think it's mysteriously 'disappearing'?, when it's simply feeding the lights.

 

[granddad]

Investigation of how thing work is indeed an admirable trait , but Trauts22 seems to have a gungho attitude to measurements... Touching wires for heat and will it kill me .... next he /she will be flying a kite in a thunder storm !
should we be worried if trauts stops posting ... ?

 

[blueroomelectronics]

I guess the OP isn't interested in learning about electricity. He just seems gungho on that worthless Gegene generator hoax.

 

[Trauts22]

Yes there is a lot wrong with your logic

Thank you tcmtech. This is the first reasonable explanation I have seen. I will investigate further. Does this mean that a multistrand cable will be able to carry higher currents than a single wire?

 

[Trauts22]

thus allowing them to work at their normal wattage range but at 800+ volts input yet only be taking a few hundred milliamps of current.

Am I correct in thinking that the 2400 watts at 800 volts will draw 3 amps in these conditions?

 

[granddad]

Trauts22... You still there ?

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/what-kills-people-current-or-voltage-or-something-else/

 

[Trauts22]

Trauts22... You still there ?

Thank you - seems I'm not much use as a meter.

 

[JimB]

Trauts,

Where are you in Shetland?
I was in Hillswick from 1981 to 1984 while I worked at Sullom Voe.

JimB

 

[Trauts22]

I'm in Cunningsburgh, or sometimes Forvik: **broken link removed**

 

[JimB]

Forvik ? Hmm...
Is that you in the Forvik video?

JimB