Help with flat earth facts and English language.

Little Ghostman said:

Your in a burning tower of ten people, the fire brigade wont come up for less than $100, you say heres my $10 and i am not paying cent more because it isnt fair and i shouldnt have to. You might have $1000 in your pocket, but i bet if everyone else in that building only has $9, your going to die with a pocket full of money.

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But my end of the tower is not on fire and my $1000 bought me enough fire extinguishers to deal with my ends problems well enough to get my butt out.

Too bad you expected someone else to pitch in on your perceived problem rather than deal with it with what you have as if that other person and their $1000 never existed. After all the guy with the $1000 took measures to cover his but so why didn't you work to have the same countermeasures in place and why does he owe you anything for your not working as hard and resources as he did?

Just because you exist doesn't mean the rest of the world owes you, they have their own issue to deal with too, you know. Just like all those who only have $1 or even dime or penny compared to your $10.

Why aren't you bending over backwards to help them at the level you expect me with my $1000 to do for you? I don't expect those with $10,000 or even aa million to help me out because they have vastly more than I do. See the problem of relative perspectives yet?

tcmtech said:

Too bad you expected someone else to pitch in on your perceived problem rather than deal with it with what you have as if that other person and their $1000 never existed.

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See there you go assuming again! I am not in the building!! Look out the window, I am the guy holding the can that had $10 of petrol in

Little Ghostman said:

Developing countries are often ahead of developed countries in many ways.

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Any your criticizing other about selective data?

Yes, some less developed countries in certain aspects do but the vast majority do not let alone across the board to where they are even remotely comparable on level ground standards. Having one really good tire on a Ox cart does not make it a high end sports car.

That's why I believe in fair and equitable trade deals but otherwise you do your thing I do mine.

BREAK....... Just letting TCM catch me up a bit, he types slow

Little Ghostman said:

See there you go assuming again! I am not in the building!! Look out the window, I am the guy holding the can that had $10 of petrol in

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If you can't win by your rules, then burn down the winners who are all about playing fair.

Rahter why the world has the problems it has with petty selfish non issue topics these days and rather to the point why the adults and those who have something worth protecting don't let kids and those with nothing make the rules in their and everyone else's life.

So whats worth protecting, give me your top 10 list of things you would protect and the order they matter most in

Little Ghostman said:

BREAK....... Just letting TCM catch me up a bit, he types slow

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So you're going personal now?

FWIW, I'm doing other things online right now so feel lucky you're getting the attention you are in near real time given that I am on my laptop and can't run multiple screens like the main home system can.

Little Ghostman said:

So whats worth protecting, give me your top 10 list of things you would protect and the order they matter most in

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I don't have a list being I deal with life as it comes and as opportunity to improve or gain presents itself. My life is good, my income is stable and my local environment is improving year by year for whatever reasons it is.

That's all I care about being thats all my resources allow me to deal with without placing undue burden on myself or others who may not see things my way. I live by example not by force. It's a age and experience thing and someday you will get the real meaning and value of it.

You dont have a list but then go on to list three.

1) your life is good

2) Your income is stable

3) Your environment is improving

Well at least they share a common thread i guess.

tcmtech said:

So you're going personal now?

FWIW, I'm doing other things online right now so feel lucky you're getting the attention you are in near real time given that I am on my laptop and can't run multiple screens like the main home system can.

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No just explaining why i was taking a break .

IF every person on the planet managed to half their carbon footprint then we'd be OK until the population doubles near the end of the century. The problem is too many humans and nobody is addressing that problem. Even China recently dropped it's one child policy.

Mike.

So how do we cull the herd in a fair manner?
Where would we even start with that?

Mickster said:

So how do we cull the herd in a fair manner?
Where would we even start with that?

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I vote for the eldest born in each family - sorry elder brother. Whoops, just realised, as I came up with the idea my family is exempt.

Mike.

Little Ghostman said:

There is so much scientifically and technically wrong I wouldnt know exactly where to start.

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Start at the beginning.

You miss important facts like CO2 and its high solubility in water, plants infact prefer CO2 in liquid form at the roots(Carbonic acid). Most green plant matter is in fact in the oceans now, so taking up CO2 via the Ocean is not good, it alters the acidity.

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It would be good if you cited a source showing land plants prefer CO2 in liquid form. In the meantime, here is a link that shows how leaves inhale CO2 and exhale O2 through their leaf stomata https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stomata . You are ignorant of the fact that the warming oceans are releasing CO2, not accepting it. The increase of CO2 is largly caused by the Earth's warming, not man made causes. Warmer water does not hold as much CO2 as cold water does. That includes vast amounts of vegetative impregnated land (peat) in Siberia and other northern land masses.

You also skip over the effect that a decent layer of Ozone would do as protection from solar influence, and skip the bit where CO2 depletes this.

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What solar influence? Ozone protects from UV radiation. What does ozone have to do with CO2?

Dont get hung up on where CO2 comes from, its one of a number of gases that are a problem, the problem isnt so much with have X amount them, rather the problem is we have X amount more than the planet can cope with. Anything done to reduce amounts helps, but wont solve it, yes i am a environmentalist to some degree but i live a long way from stupidvill.

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I never mentioned where CO2 comes from. I said that CO2 is swamped by a more insulating gas, specifically water vapor. Other gases like methane are more potent but much more scarce.

If you go back some 40 odd years there is a program i tracked down on the Thames barrier before it was built, funny thing is they predicted floods etc back then. Its why they got the money to build the barrier, but things have gone past the predictions and the situation is worse. You cant look at climate change on its own, its like looking at a food chain, really you need to look at the entire food web and not a single chain.

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What does the above paragraph have to do with the cause of climate change? What does the food chain have to do with climate change?

I dont honestly know how much we can now mitigate the damage, but that dosnt mean we shouldnt try. First thing would be to reduce the amount of natural rain forest we fell, cutting back emissions is a small step but its worth doing.

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Cutting back on CO2 emissions will not help for the reasons already stated. The small amount of CO2 in the air is not causing global warming. If you can control the solar cycle, and reduce the amount of solar wind emanating from the Sun, then you could do it. But, be careful of unintended consequences. Fortunately, I don't know of any mortal being who can do that.

As i said there is no point arguing the why, what really matters is how its puts right. The single biggest help would be to cut waste of energy to the bone. Then instead of just flushing **** down a sewer maybe use that to make a gas to power a generator, feed the gas from that into water and a buffer and feed via rootstock to lock it up........ But there is always people who will insist that is a light at the end of the tunnel and not a train coming.

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You have to know why before you can know how. The right thing to do is to not try to change things for the purpose of climate change. Instead, just cope with what is happening, while knowing that you cannot change global warming. Global warming is not necessarily bad. After all, we would not want most of the northern hemisphere covered in a glacier, would we?

Ratch

misterT said:

Hello

So, it is weekend. I had this idea of making fun of flat earth "movement". The idea is to draw two pictures about how gravity works.

Picture 1 explains how gravity works on a big planet. My simple understanding is that you are pulled towards the mass-center of object.. always. Is this simple fact correct?

Picture 2 shows how human experiences the gravitational field of a disc-shape planet. When you walk towards the edge you feel like you are climbing up steeper and steeper hill. So, for a human the experience is more like living in a bowl.

Picture 3 shows how human experiences gravitation on a spherical planet. You are always pulled toward the ground. So, walking around the globe feels like walking on flat surface.

What do you think.. worth making a funny "infographic"? I need help expressing those things punctually in english.

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Don't waste your time. The truth is 'flat earth' as a theory works as a valid model for many people. Yes it's wrong but it's only Relatively Wrong.
**broken link removed**

Nowadays, of course, we are taught that the flat-earth theory is wrong; that it is all wrong, terribly wrong, absolutely. But it isn't. The curvature of the earth is nearly 0 per mile, so that although the flat-earth theory is wrong, it happens to be nearly right. That's why the theory lasted so long.

There were reasons, to be sure, to find the flat-earth theory unsatisfactory and, about 350 B.C., the Greek philosopher Aristotle summarized them. First, certain stars disappeared beyond the Southern Hemisphere as one traveled north, and beyond the Northern Hemisphere as one traveled south. Second, the earth's shadow on the moon during a lunar eclipse was always the arc of a circle. Third, here on the earth itself, ships disappeared beyond the horizon hull-first in whatever direction they were traveling.

All three observations could not be reasonably explained if the earth's surface were flat, but could be explained by assuming the earth to be a sphere.

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What does "The curvature of the earth is nearly 0 per mile" mean? Zero what? Is that the same as saying the distance to the moon is nearly 0 per solar distance?

Mike.

Pommie said:

What does "The curvature of the earth is nearly 0 per mile" mean? Zero what? Is that the same as saying the distance to the moon is nearly 0 per solar distance?

Mike.

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It means the if you stand in a Kansas corn field ,computations of 3D space using a flat earth are just as accurate as a spherical earth for that mile.

nsaspook said:

It means the if you stand in a Kansas corn field ,computations of 3D space using a flat earth are just as accurate as a spherical earth for that mile.

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I calculate that the surface is 2,23517E-8 feet lower at one foot away from a spot on the round 4000 mile radius Earth. At 1 mile, the surface drops 0.66 feet. At 10 miles, the surface drops 66 feet. Most large ships are not directly visible 15 miles out to sea.

Ratch

MaxHeadRoom78 said:

It's going down, but latest US Gallup poll shows 42% still believe the earth is less than 10,000yrs old .
https://news.gallup.com/poll/170822/believe-creationist-view-human-origins.aspx
Max.

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That's a whole different issue....

There are other aspects of the arguments as well like that the earth is not a perfect smooth sphere either but has widely varying changes in relative elevations that skew the working perceptions of field of view and distance for any give area and immediate location.

Because of that reality the theoretical concept of say ~ 8 inches of perceive elevation drop per mile does not work everywhere because there are many locations where there is a far greater local ground plane elevation change and thusly why if you stand at one point you may be able to see for 10's or even a 100+ miles to the local horizon.

It's the same local effects, micro Vs macro resolution, falcy the environmentalists use to justify much of their arguments. I have (or I really believe I have) XYZ in excess quantities by my local perceptions therefore it must be like that everywhere else and that makes it everyone's problem and everyone should be doing something to make my local conditions fit unrealistically idealistic expectations set by me so that I will be happy.