Flashing LED in a drumstick?

[grrr_arrghh]

Hi

I am thinking of making some of those drumsticks with LEDs in the ends. The way I see it, I can carefully drill out the inside of the drumstick, and put all the circuitry and batteries inside the (now hollow) stick.

The drilling may be interesting, but I can handle that.

It gets complicated. I would like it to have a mode where it is always on (easy) and one where it flashes (also very easy to do). The hard bit is making a mode where it flashes in time to the music…

The only way I can see of doing this is to have a circuit with a mic, that will turn the LED on and off in time to the music (in time with the drumming, hopefully…). However, that seems like a lot of components to fit inside a drumstick (probably only a cm or two in diameter). So, the only was I can think of to avoid having all this inside the stick is to have a circuit that broadcasts the signal to the drumstick telling it when to flash. However, the receiver would probably have quite a high component count, and may interfere with the sound system.

This is all assuming that it is quite easy to make a circuit that will make the LED flash in time to the music?

Anyone any ideas?

Thanks

Tim

 

[zachtheterrible]

For the mode of flashing in time w/ the drumming, you could get a switch that closes when it senses G-force, or the moving of ur stick. I'm sure its not that simple, but, at least its an idea.

 

[xenoxion]

**broken link removed**'s a schematic for a very simple FM reciever (scroll down about a page). You could probably replace the speaker with your LEDs or have the circuit drive a thyristor to turn on'off your LEDs. There are plenty of schematics for FM transmitters too if you need one, just google around.

 

[grrr_arrghh]

just google around.

thanks for the link, as you say, there are plenty of FM recievers around, I really was just wondering about people opinions on the project. Any problems that hit them. Thanks anyway.

One prob I just thought of is the time delay. The stick would hit the drum, the sound would travel to the processor thingy, then get transmited, then the LED would flash - it could be a considerable ammount of time later.

you could get a switch that closes when it senses G-force

i like that idea. You mean like a tilt switch or something. That would remove the need for a proccessor to turn the sound into flashingness. it would also remove ALOT of circuitry. I really think thats quite a good idea. Only one prob that hits me is that if you were hitting a cymbal, the angle of the stick wouldn't change that much, it may not be enough to trigger the flash. Maybe someone can help out on this.

Thanks both of you, i appreciate the feedback

Tim

P.S. if I pull this off it could make me VERY popular with a (female) drum playing friend...

 

[xenoxion]

Well, you don't necessarily need a switch that senses tilt, just G-forces. I've been thinking, if you get a small reed switch, those usually just use two very thin, flexible pieces of metal near each other. I'm pretty sure that hitting a drum or a cymbal, no matter the angle, could trigger one of those. Even if it doesn't, you might even build some magnets into your drum or something to trigger the switch.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

I don't like to be negative, but drumsticks break fairly frequently anyway, I wouldn't expect a hollowed out one to last any time at all.

 

[jbeng]

... but drumsticks break fairly frequently anyway, I wouldn't expect a hollowed out one to last any time at all.

I agree Nigel. I mix sound for a rock band and our drummer breaks 2-3 sticks per night. Personally, I think he oftentimes plays too hard, but that's just me ...

Grrr_arrghh might be able to use some kind of piezo-electric device to trigger his led flash when the stick strikes something ...

 

[bmcculla]

You could use a strain gauge to detect the impact against the drum. There are strain gauges that are embedded in a thin plastic film with an adhesive on one side - just stick it to the side of the stick. You then rectify and lowpass filter the output to trigger the LED.

You could fill the hole down the center of the stick with epoxy or a potting compound of some sort after adding the electronics; this would make it a bit stronger.

Brent

 

[gerty]

How about impact sensors on the drums????

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

I agree Nigel. I mix sound for a rock band and our drummer breaks 2-3 sticks per night. Personally, I think he oftentimes plays too hard, but that's just me ...

Yes, I built and ran the PA for a rock band back in the 70's, drummers are well known for being a different species to the rest of the human race :lol:

 

[grrr_arrghh]

drummers are well known for being a different species to the rest of the human race

lol, how true..., and delicately put :lol:

[reed switches] use two very thin, flexible pieces of metal near each other. I'm pretty sure that hitting a drum or a cymbal, no matter the angle, could trigger one of those.

that is a very good idea. assuming that it works, that is the simplest solution. And brings the component count down to about 4 (reed switch, LED, resistor, battery)

Which brings me onto my next point: can you buy THIN batteries, like AAAs (sometimes called LR03 or MN2400), but thiner, preferably? Remembering that the drum sticks needs to be about the same weight as normal (i.e. inserted components can't weigh much more than the wood that they replace...). I vaguely remember seeing some varta button batteries that were about 6mm accross...

drumsticks break fairly frequently anyway, I wouldn't expect a hollowed out one to last any time at all

that was a concern, but originally I was doing the project as an experiment in electronics, I thought I could put up with breakage: if the sticks lasted no time at all, I would have wasted some time, but i'd have learn't something . I'm now getting a bit more involved in it, and as such my main concern is simply the robustness. I intend to make the hole down the stick as narrow as possible, by using 2mm LEDs (or smaller) but these LEDs may not be robust enough, but its possibly better than haveing a big hole. But then if I have a small hole, it will be harder to get epoxy resin (or something) down the hole (if I left the hole with nothing to strengthen it the sticks would break in no time, as everyone pointed out). :? :?

hmm, i was going to feed the LED down the hole that the wire was going down, but I suppose I could feed the wires through a narrow hole in the middle of the stick, solder them to the LED, the pull the LED back into the tip... What do you think?

Thanks for all the ideas with piezo, impact sensors etc, but i'm pretty confidant the reed switch idea will work reasonably well, and it is the simplest, by far.

Thanks again for all the ideas, i'm amazed how much appeared overnight!!

Tim

P.S. maybe metal tips on the sticks, connected to a high voltage source, ground the cymbals, when you hit them, sparks fly!! Maybe thats going a bit too far, lol.

 

[ukeee]

How about using button type batteries, some of them are quite small.

 

[grrr_arrghh]

How about using button type batteries, some of them are quite small.

hmm, i thought about that, my only worry about button cells is would they be able to supply enough voltage/power/current/amp-hours etc for an LED. I know LEDs don't draw much current, but for a stage environment I may find myself needing to use high brightness LEDs and was just worrying about power etc, considering the small size of these cells. Maybe I just worry too much.

 

[ukeee]

I guess you need to work out what LED you are going to use and how long you want it to last. If the LED is flashing it will use less power than when it was on continuous. Do you need to worry about the weighting of the drum stick, I don't know anything about drumming but would have thought that how the drum sticks are weighted might be important.

The smaller coin batteries are only capable of 30mAh, so they wouldn't last that long with a high brightness LED maybe a few hours if the LED was flashing. You could always use a few of them.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

drummers are well known for being a different species to the rest of the human race

lol, how true..., and delicately put :lol:

Well, my daughter goes drumming on Tuesday nights 8)

But she's not exclusively a drummer!, she's mainly a bassist, pianist, vocalist - plus flutist, and now guitarist! - AND SHE CAN'T HAVE A DRUM SET!!!!!.

 

[grrr_arrghh]

AND SHE CAN'T HAVE A DRUM SET!!!!!.

the long suffering parent...

anyway:

Do you need to worry about the weighting of the drum stick, I don't know anything about drumming but would have thought that how the drum sticks are weighted might be important.

I thought about that, and decided that aslong as the main components (battery etc) were in the grip area of the stick, it would be ok (I don't play drums either), well whoever uses them will just have to get used to oddly weighted sticks!!

The smaller coin batteries are only capable of 30mAh, so they wouldn't last that long with a high brightness LED maybe a few hours if the LED was flashing. You could always use a few of them.

hmm, thats what i thought - if I need several batteries, I might aswell use a bigger battery. Although if it is really easy to change the battery, it wouldn't be too much of a problem, because they would really be a novelty item, and woudn't be used for a whole gig (I expect)

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

I thought about that, and decided that aslong as the main components (battery etc) were in the grip area of the stick, it would be ok (I don't play drums either), well whoever uses them will just have to get used to oddly weighted sticks!!

I don't drum either, but I suspect the balance is more important than the weight - you do get loads of different weight and size drumsticks, but generally they probably have similar balance.

 

[grrr_arrghh]

you do get loads of different weight and size drumsticks, but generally they probably have similar balance.

hmm, your probably right, I shall have to ask some drum people about it. It may be that different sticks have different balance anyway (if you think of orchestral percussion, sticks such as timpani sticks have huge 1 or 2" 'tips' to them, so the balance would probably be different). I shall have to find out.

Also, most button cells only weigh a few grams (hopefully...?), so the extra weight wouldn't be too much. And reed switches weigh very little.

I am beginning to feel that the theory and idea is good, but actually getting the thing into a USEABLE drum stick will be more trouble than it is worth. We shall see.

Thanks for all the ideas and advice guys, I'd never get anywhere without it.

 

[Crofty]

:idea: You could use a Bi-Morph piezo sensor.

These are very thin, 2 wires pre-fitted. They output 4V P to P, (albeit Hi-Impedance). Using a bi-morph in conjuction with a schmidt inverting buffer (Pico Gate type) would give a pulse output that could trigger a led etc. Size is about 15mm long x 1.1mm x 0.6mm approx.

Radio Spares Part No - 285-784

Just an alternative

Steve

 

[weegee]

Have you seen Tyre Flys or LEDs in yo yo's I woud say that a good option would work these mount your led in the tip or whatever, through a suitable resistor, then onto a small spring with a button cell at the other side, when the stick is swung it would generate enough g force to make the wieght of the button cell compress the spring and make the circuit.

or you could make a very simple impact sensor like this:

:idea: solder a small spring 4mm long by about 2mm diameter to a pcb, place over it a small tube of metal and solder it to the board, about 3 or 4mm diameter - this is now your switch. by variying the strength of the spring - you can vary the sensitivty of your device. by using a strong spring the switch would only close on impact.

not sure if this is exactly what your looking for but would make the led flash each time the drums are hit and could be built from 1 resistor, a button cell or 2 (will outlast the sticks), an led, my little spring switch thing.

regards

graham