Federal Light Bulb Legislation.

[gary350]

In about 3 months you will no longer be able to buy certain types of light bulbs. They will no longer be manufactured.

1/1/2012, no more 100 watt and 60 watt incandescent light bulbs.

7/14/2012, no more T12 or T8 with 2 pin fluorescent light bulbs.

1/1/2012, no more incandescent flood and spot light bulbs PAR 20, 30, 38.

1/1/2013, no more 75 watt incandescent light bulbs.

1/1/2014, no more 40 & 60 watt incandescent light bulbs.

I was going to buy new light fixtures for my work shop I am glad I found out about this before I bought fluorescent light fixtures. Replacement light bulbs will be LED and Halogen.

Has anyone tried the new light bulbs yet?

I think I will go to Lowe's tomorrow morning and look at the new bulbs. I want to buy a new bulb just to see if I like it.

 

[KeepItSimpleStupid]

You have 60 W listed under two dates.

So, far the issues have been:

1. We like the 3-way compact florescent bulbs a bunch. Comes on instantly.
2. We just tried a small socket compact florescent bulb in a hanging lamp. It looks wierd and takes 1 second to come on.
3. I hate the compact florescents when it's cold, even though I put one outside on a post lamp.
4. I hate the delay in certain applications: Steps, pantry, attic. I'm using a large halogin flood as well up there. I wish I had two.
5. They look ugly in chandeliers - so they are incadesent
6. Some lamps take FOREVER to get to full brightness. A flood takes 5 to 8 minutes in the bathroom. A small table lamp also takes some time. These are the non-squiggle ones.

Remeber that the CFL's come in dimmable and non-dimmable.

I have not experimented with CFL's in ceiling fan fixtures.

 

[ronsimpson]

Many people use light bulbs for heat. example; to keep baby chicks worm, keep water pipes from freezing, warm plants in hot houses. I have a 250W bulb in the bathroom for shower heat.

I have some CF lights that do not come on at 0C. I have lives in places where for a week at a time we never saw a high temperature above -40. If 1/2 of my bulbs don't work at -20C what is my brother going to do at -60. (sit in the dark!)

In the cold part of winter I leave the outside CFs on 24/7 because they won't start. (This is in the name of saving energy)

 

[Pommie]

Australia banned incandescent bulbs a few years ago. What replaced most were halogen lights in an incandescent shell. They are roughly twice the price but last twice as long and use 2/3 the energy. Win win in my view.

Mike.
**broken link removed**
BTW, in Aus they call them globes!!

 

[Roff]

CFLs are not ready for prime time. We've gotta get the GD government out of our lives. I'm in favor of saving energy, but our electric devices still need to work.
I have ceiling fixtures that have globes which do not allow air flow. I just bought some CFLs that recommend that you install them in locations with adequate air flow. Am I supposed to replace my ceiling fixtures?
In my kitchen, I just replaced a 65W BR30 flood with a 15W R30 CFL. The CFL is ultimately brighter than what it replaced, but it is initially very dim, and takes several minutes to attain full brightness. I make coffee using this light to see what I am doing. Guess I'll have to get up, turn on the light, go back and make my bed, then make coffee. What a PITA.
I also just replaced my BR30 front porch light (which is required to be on at night by my HOA). It's working fine now. I wonder how it will work when the temperature gets down to single digits (Fahrenheit)?

 

[ericgibbs]

Many people use light bulbs for heat. example; to keep baby chicks worm, keep water pipes from freezing, warm plants in hot houses. I have a 250W bulb in the bathroom for shower heat.

hi Ron,
A European company is still manufacturing tungsten/incandescent lamps, they have got around the legislation by marketing and selling the lamps as 'heaters'.

Technically they are more efficient for heating than lighting. IIRC is about 5% light output.

Perhaps some enterprising U.S. company could do the same work around.

 

[carbonzit]

Before people get too bent out of shape over this ban ("we've got to get the gol-durn gubmint off our backs", etc.), you might want to check out this page (from a reliable source, Don Klipstein) the shows the numerous exemptions to this ban. Some of them are big enough to drive a rather large truck through.

By the way, regarding anecdotal experience with CFLs, I'm still surprised at the bad reports I still read about these lamps. I've been using CFLs almost exclusively where I live for the last 8 years or so, and have had almost none of them fail. (The one thing I can sympathize with, though, is how Ron reports how bad they work in cold temperatures.)

 

[jpanhalt]

CFLs are not ready for prime time. We've gotta get the GD government out of our lives. I'm in favor of saving energy, but our electric devices still need to work.

I agree. I have had a log home on a small farm for about 2 years. Everything in the home is wood inside too. Lighting is mostly rack lighting with small spot lights. CF bulb either don't fit, or their non-directional light just gets lost in the non-reflective wood.

The barn is another situation. It is 81 feet long by 42 feet and has a center row of double T12 bulbs most of the length which provides more than adequate lighting for working in there. In this case, the non-directional output is a huge advantage. I have no idea what would be an adequate and cost-effective replacement.

As for costing 2X and lasting 2X, I am skeptical about the latter claim. The cost is easy to document, but the lifespan in normal use is not. I have had CF's burn out before incandescents installed at about the same time in similar fixtures. Anyone here ever return their 2-to-10X more expensive bulbs for warranty replacement? How do you prove which receipt was for which bulb? Fluorescent bulbs also have increased expense and risk of discard. Maybe the government is not worried about mad hatter citizens.

John

 

[Reloadron]

If I drop an Incandescent bulb I sweep it up. If I drop and break a CFL bulb it becomes another story. I guess I am also getting weary of a government that continues to tell me what is good for me.

Ron

 

[Pommie]

As for costing 2X and lasting 2X, I am skeptical about the latter claim. The cost is easy to document, but the lifespan in normal use is not. I have had CF's burn out before incandescents installed at about the same time in similar fixtures. Anyone here ever return their 2-to-10X more expensive bulbs for warranty replacement? How do you prove which receipt was for which bulb? Fluorescent bulbs also have increased expense and risk of discard. Maybe the government is not worried about mad hatter citizens.

John

When I mentioned twice the price but double the service life I was referring to halogens not CFLs. This does seem to have been born out over the two years this has been the case.

I personally hate CFLs but I've been pleasantly surprised by the halogen "incandescents".

Mike.

 

[jpanhalt]

I will keep an open mind with respect to halogen incandescents. I have used the quartz tube version for years. They have many nice features, as do the new and extremely expensive LED's for home use.

The barn is a different story, since I am dealing with a relatively low ceiling (16' eaves), I have not found a good replacement for the 8 foot long T12 bulbs.

One aspect of saving energy that is often overlooked is the supply side. Our electric companies have significant fixed costs to recover with usage fees. As usage goes down, rates go up.

John

 

[MrAl]

In about 3 months you will no longer be able to buy certain types of light bulbs. They will no longer be manufactured.

1/1/2012, no more 100 watt and 60 watt incandescent light bulbs.

7/14/2012, no more T12 or T8 with 2 pin fluorescent light bulbs.

1/1/2012, no more incandescent flood and spot light bulbs PAR 20, 30, 38.

1/1/2013, no more 75 watt incandescent light bulbs.

1/1/2014, no more 40 & 60 watt incandescent light bulbs.

I was going to buy new light fixtures for my work shop I am glad I found out about this before I bought fluorescent light fixtures. Replacement light bulbs will be LED and Halogen.

Has anyone tried the new light bulbs yet?

I think I will go to Lowe's tomorrow morning and look at the new bulbs. I want to buy a new bulb just to see if I like it.

Hi,

"Has anyone tried the new light bulbs yet"
What new light bulbs are you talking about?

 

[gary350]

I replaced all my CFs with incandescent light bulbs about a month ago. Some of the CFs lasted only 1 month and stopped working. I noticed if a none working CF is left on they got hot enough to cook bacon. I found a warning online about dead CFs catching on fire and burning houses down. I have some CFs when turned ON nothing happens for about 2 minutes then they flicker for 20 minutes then they are ON. I do have a few CFs that seem to work just as well as incandescent light bulbs but I worry about the over heating problems I don't want to burn my house down trying to save 7 cents worth of electricity every month. I read online that 5% of a persons monthly electric bill is for lights, 40% is the electric clothes dryer, 15% is the electric hot water heater, etc. We stopped using the electric clothes dryer now we hang all clothes on the clothes line even in the winter our electric bill dropped from about $200 per month to $145 per month. I put a timer on the hot water heater so it turns off when we go to bed 10 pm to 7 am off again after wife washes clothes 9:30 am to 6 pm the electric bill dropped to $115 per month. I experemented with different things on the Air Conditioner cleaning radiator out with the garden hose made it run less, keeping the air filter clean helps, closing off rooms that are not used helps, electric bill dropped to $100 per month. Wife walks around in the dark with a Flashlight and watches TV in the dark, I make sure to use lights only in the room I am in, NO noticable difference in the electric bill. The appliances that use big power are the things that will give you the best savings on the electric bill. If the government really wants to force us to save energy they should banned clothes dryers and require everyone to use a clothes line.

 

[carbonzit]

I personally hate CFLs but I've been pleasantly surprised by the halogen "incandescents".

Well, halogens are incandescents. No need for scare quotes.

And they're exempt from the incandescent ban; check the link I posted earlier.

 

[BrownOut]

Most of my lighting is already CFL's. In the 5+ years I've been using them, only a single one has stopped working. Incadescent lamps can't come close to that reliability.

 

[carbonzit]

My experience exactly.

As I said, I'm surprised to hear reports, this late in the game, of unreliable or short-lived CFLs. Makes me wonder what kind of bulbs people are buying. If one buys what Don Klipstein calls "Chinese stool sample bulbs", then maybe one can't expect good performance.

CFLs are far from perfect:

• They do contain mercury (though as Klipstein points out, far less than regular fluorescent tubes, and their energy savings helps to reduce mercury emissions from coal-fired power plants, at least in theory)
• They run hot. Not as hot as incandescents, of course, but heat is still an issue, and a bulb burned base-up in a poorly-ventilated fixture has a good chance of early mortality.
• They're still more expensive, though getting cheaper. My local power company subsidizes really cheap CFLs that are of very good quality.

 

[gary350]

I went to Lowe's to check out the new light bulbs today. Some of the bulbs are like comparing water mellons to lemons. Here is informaton for the 100 watt incandescant bulbs compared to there replacements.

100 watt incandescant bulbs.
1600 Lumins
1000 hours life expected.
8 pack $2.48
16 pack $5.29
24 pack is not available.

100 watt replacement = 72 watts Halogen.
1490 Lumins
???? hours life expected not listed.
2 pack $4.98

100 watt replacement = 72 watt Halogen.
900 Lumins it will take 2 bulbs to = 1 1600 lumin incandescent bulb.
2000 hours.
1 bulb $5.49 each

100 watt replacement = 75 watt LED
900 Lumins
50,000. hours
1 bulb $54.98 each

Lowe's does not have any of the new fluorescent light bulbs or fixtures but that is not required for another 15 months.

For the price of the 2 pack 1490 Lumin Halogen replacement I can buy 20 incandescant light bulbs. No life listed for the Halogen so what if it burns out after 800 hours the price per bulb would be equal to buying 40 incandescant bulbs. What if it lasts 2000 hours like the other replacement I would still be better or price wise to buy incandescent bulbs. The 30% savings in electricity down not out weight the higher price of the bulbs. Assuming both bulbs have and equal life of 1600 hours, 2 incandescent bulbs = .31 cents compared to 2 Halogen bulbs = $4.98 thats 16 times more expensive for the same thing.

 

[BrownOut]

The 30% savings in electricity down not out weight the higher price of the bulbs. Assuming both bulbs have and equal life of 1600 hours, 2 incandescent bulbs = .31 cents compared to 2 Halogen bulbs = $4.98 thats 16 times more expensive for the same thing.

Your math doesn't add up. 2000 hours of burning a 100W incandescent is 200KWH of electricity. Assuming about $.075 per KWH, that's 15 bucks for electricity, plus .31=$15.31

For the Halogen, 2000 hours of burning 72W is 144KWH. At the same price for electricity, that's $10.80 plus 4.98 = $15.78. The cost for using Halogen is only 47 cents more.

 

[BrownOut]

A 100W equv CFL bulb uses about 23W, has 12K hours est life and costs about 6 bucks.

incandescent bulb: 12000*100W= 1200KWHX.075= $90 + 12*.15= $91.80.
CFL bulb: 12000*23W= 276KWH*.075=$20.70+~$6~=20.70.

The CFL bulb saves an estimated $71.10

The savings will be less in Tennessee than in Alabama due to the difference in electricity costs.

 

[Reloadron]

This CFL story is a little off topic but I want to share it and I am sure jpanhalt who lives in NE Ohio not far from me can attest to it.

Cleveland, Ohio and for the better part all of North East Ohio is served by First Energy. Now before any rate increases or customer billing changes can happen it needs to go through PUCO (Public Utilities Comission of Ohio). They are the watchdog of the public.

About a year ago when all this was brewing with the desire to become green and conserve our natural resources First Energy had this wonderful idea. They contracted with a company in China and purchased 3,000,000 CFL lamps. That is correct, they bought Three Million CFL bulbs. They were shipped from China to right here in lovely Cleveland, Ohio USA. They went into a large warehouse. They also contracted for a few thousand green T-Shirts from China with a cute curly bulb and some conservation slogan.

Then their magnificent plan, already approved by PUCO, would go into action. First Energy employees, wearing the T-Shirts would distribute these 3,000,000 bulbs to every residential customer. Every customer would get 2 bulbs. However, here is the catch. The bulbs I never asked for, as well as anyone else, were not free. They would cost me about $22 USD. First energy would then bill me by spreading the cost out over a year on my monthly electric bill. Now this begs the question as to why Two bulbs I can buy at Lowes for $3.50 per bulb are costing me $22? Apparently a million other people had the same question.

The answer is simple. First Energy actually took the time to figure out what their loss would be. Meaning if I replace a 60 or 75 watt incandescent bulb with a CFL bulb I will obviously use less power. That less power is power that First Energy will not be selling me. It's not like they don't have the power to sell, hell they are in the business of selling power. The more power they sell the more money they make. They actually had it figured that they should be compensated for their loss. Go figure?

The outcry was so great that PUCO had to reverse their decision. People actually went ballistic over this. Last I heard First Energy now stuck with 3,000,000 CFL bulbs in a warehouse. Last I heard they were trying to cut deals with places like Home Depot and Lowes to unload the mountain of bulbs.

So what this really comes down to is trying to reduce power consumption means nothing. Eventually the suppliers will simply increase the prices. The more you buy, the less it cost and they have no shortage of it to sell you. The less you buy, the more it will cost. That is how it will play out.

As to the bulbs themselves? Some work and some don't. My take is if a bulb will fail it will fail within weeks. The problem here is when they fail, they can fail big time. Do a Google of Burning CFL Bulb. Most of the cheap CFL bulbs pouring in from China are junk. Not all but most. If a junk bulb starts a fire who do I complain to?

Everything about this new law is wrong!

Just My Take
Ron