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could anyone modify my power supply...

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Nigel Goodwin

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Someone Electro said:
Uuse jpg format.Its small evryone can see it and it alows being uploaded.
DON'T USE JPG FOR DIAGRAMS!.

JPG is poor quality, and gives poor diagrams, and much too large file sizes, use GIF - this gives 100% quality and far smaller file sizes than JPG.

JPG is intended for photographs, where it gives acceptable quality and fairly small file sizes - it doesn't work well for diagrams, GIF is a great deal smaller and better for diagrams.
 

Nigel Goodwin

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Someone Electro said:
yea i know its makes diagrams a bit fuzzy.
Yes, but it makes them large files as well, for example here's the circuit for my wireless transmitter tutorial board, in both GIF and JPG.

The JPG is a good quality one (90%), and it's over 6 times as large as the perfect GIF version.
 

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Russlk

New Member
use GIF - this gives 100% quality and far smaller file sizes than JPG.

I did not know that, Nigel, and I still don't. I have noticed that when I load a picture from my camera into MGI Photosuite II and save it, it is much smaller than before even tho it is JPG in both cases. I tried loading a schematic into MGI Photosuite and saving it as .GIF and find that it is larger than JPG. So, I think it has more to do with the program than the format.
 

Sebi

Active Member
Russlk said:
use GIF - this gives 100% quality and far smaller file sizes than JPG.

I did not know that, Nigel, and I still don't. I have noticed that when I load a picture from my camera into MGI Photosuite II and save it, it is much smaller than before even tho it is JPG in both cases. I tried loading a schematic into MGI Photosuite and saving it as .GIF and find that it is larger than JPG. So, I think it has more to do with the program than the format.
Most of case happened this when converted the .jpg to .gif, but never happened when converted from.png or .bmp to .gif....
 

Roff

Well-Known Member
Russlk said:
use GIF - this gives 100% quality and far smaller file sizes than JPG.

I did not know that, Nigel, and I still don't. I have noticed that when I load a picture from my camera into MGI Photosuite II and save it, it is much smaller than before even tho it is JPG in both cases. I tried loading a schematic into MGI Photosuite and saving it as .GIF and find that it is larger than JPG. So, I think it has more to do with the program than the format.
Russ, I don't know how you capture your schematics, but I was looking at NONLINEAR AMP.jpg, and it appears you are doing a screen capture. Do you know that in SWCAD, you can click on Tools/Copy Bitmap to Clipboard, or just hit ctrl-c, and then paste into Paint and save as whatever format you want? (I'm having deja vu here.) I just tried it on a test schematic - see below.
It also works on the waveform window.
 

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Nigel Goodwin

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Russlk said:
use GIF - this gives 100% quality and far smaller file sizes than JPG.

I did not know that, Nigel, and I still don't. I have noticed that when I load a picture from my camera into MGI Photosuite II and save it, it is much smaller than before even tho it is JPG in both cases. I tried loading a schematic into MGI Photosuite and saving it as .GIF and find that it is larger than JPG. So, I think it has more to do with the program than the format.
It's to do with the format, but (more importantly in this case!) with the actual image.

For a diagram, such as these circuits, the image has few colours and is easily compressed by a perfect compression system (like GIF).

With a photograph (or a scan), where you have millions of colours, to get to a reasonable file size you use JPG, which reduces the image quality, but drastically reduces the file size. With a photo, GIF compression isn't much good!.

Also, it's no use trying to convert a JPG to GIF, the damage to the file has already been done storing it as a JPEG, you need to start off with a perfect image before conversion.

It's quite simple:

Photos - JPG
Diagrams - GIF

There are other options, as no doubt will be suggested?, but these are the two 'big' options.
 

Styx

Active Member
DO NOT USE GIF!!!!

GIF is a propietory format. PNG is th eopen-source equiv.

JPG allows for higher compression becuase it is a "lossy" compression (like MP3) it looks for paterns that it can get rid of and allow other nearby bits to merge in. Due to its method JPG images look bad

GIF is a loss-less image format and it provides compress akin to to ZIP (but better suited to images).

PNG is the superceder to GIF and is free ( for developers) and provides better compression then GIF as well as other benefits


So in short Kids, use PNG for attachments
 

Nigel Goodwin

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Styx said:
So in short Kids, use PNG for attachments
As I said above, other people will have other suggestions :lol:

PNG is fine, but support is still fairly poor, as long as you use modern browsers no problem, but GIF has much greater support (simply because it's been about for a much greater time).
 

Styx

Active Member
Nigel Goodwin said:
Styx said:
So in short Kids, use PNG for attachments
As I said above, other people will have other suggestions :lol:

PNG is fine, but support is still fairly poor, as long as you use modern browsers no problem, but GIF has much greater support (simply because it's been about for a much greater time).
Support poor?
MS-office since Office2000 has support for it
IE6 does however have bad support for PNG (it only allows 1bit trasparency, so you cant get faded trasparency).
IE7 is due to have 100% PNG support and Firefox/Opera already have 100%PNG support.

Tek scopes by default dump in PNG format.
Not starting a format war, I am just trying to get exposure of PNG. It is an extreamly good format.
 

Oznog

Active Member
Styx said:
DO NOT USE GIF!!!!

GIF is a propietory format. PNG is th eopen-source equiv.
On the practical side, I've never had trouble creating or opening a GIF. So, how does this matter? Can Linux not open GIFs or what?
 

Nigel Goodwin

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Most Helpful Member
Oznog said:
Styx said:
DO NOT USE GIF!!!!

GIF is a propietory format. PNG is th eopen-source equiv.
On the practical side, I've never had trouble creating or opening a GIF. So, how does this matter? Can Linux not open GIFs or what?
The only problem is the backlash against the owners of the compression system used (which, if I recall correctly?, is Unisys?), they suddenly decided to take legal action against developers making software supporting GIF.
 

Styx

Active Member
Oznog said:
Styx said:
DO NOT USE GIF!!!!

GIF is a propietory format. PNG is th eopen-source equiv.
On the practical side, I've never had trouble creating or opening a GIF. So, how does this matter? Can Linux not open GIFs or what?
The problem is software patents.
For a piece of software to utilse the decompession of a GIF file (as well as encoding) it needs to pay a licence to whoever holds that software patent.

This is only an issue for countries that have software patents (US,Japan... and almost EU). For countries that do not they do not have to pay a licence fee.


A new image software comes onto the market, it has to compete with the big player Photoshop, it wants to encode in GIF so it has to pay the licence, that cost get passed onto the end user.
IF it doesnt pay the licence and includes GIF support IF that software is sold in a country that has software patents they are history.


Thus it is extreamly hard for a new product to enter the market.
Now there is GIMP, it has GIF coding/decoding BUT if you are in the US you cannot download the source/binaries with GIF-support (since everything is a plugin for GIMP), to protect themselfs there is a european server (for use eurotrash to d/l gimp as well) but it hosts the GIF-plugin.
This bypasses the patent since the original software (GIMP) did not ship in the US with GIF support.


To your question YES linux does support GIF (it supports every image format there is (alot more then Windows can)). BUT the point is the likes of Redhat/SuSe/... cannot ship programs in their distro that violate patents (MP3 is another one) since they need to ensure that they cannot be targeted by legel procedings. All the distro's support GIF/JPG/MP3/MPEG but just not out of the box (if purchased or d/l in the US)

All I am saying is PNG is a far superior fileformat and it is a dropin replacement for GIF (does all that GIF does but better and more) and if support grows for it then its acceptance will grow relegating GIF to the histroy books and thus licence fees for that patent are no longer needed thus cheaper software
 

Nigel Goodwin

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Re: sch

4electros said:
i've attached .sch file before to this forum, so... strange!!
But using an obscure format means that many people (most people?) won't be able to view it - using a graphics format that is small, and displays in any browser, means that everyone can see it.
 
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