Bad news (School Cuts)

dknguyen · Apr 17, 2008

UTMonkey said:
I agree with Nigel, the latest recommendation from our Education wizards in the UK is that every child should receive a dose of "Culture" education - bring on Music\Art\Drama!

I have always been interested in classical guitar and always been interested in electronics (even when I was at school)

I am 37 now, I started guitar lessons at 19 and have now only just started electronics. Why didn't the UK education system support these interests?

But I suppose hearing the comments in this thread it is only good if it can be sustained.

better to have and to have lost? nope!

Mark

I disagree. THe reason I started music so late was because I was forced to take a CRAPPY music class in elementary school which completely turned me off from instruments, singing, and even listening to music in general for years and years and years to come (about 6 years or so). Terrible rules and we were not allowed to pick our instruments and were FORCED to use recorders which was terrible because the notes were not intuitive (and I know I'm not the only one that though this). All the different unrelated finger combinations for different notes rather than pianos, xylophones, guitars, or stringed instruments where it's "one more finger on is one note higher".

Only do it if you're going to do it right, or else don't waste money to do more damage by not doing it at all.

killivolt · Apr 17, 2008

I believe music, art, new language etc.

Can help to aid anyone at anytime in life.

This will trick the brain to build more neurons. In addition it builds them in a way that allows the brain to develop skills in area's not common to a known environment.

eg electronics ?

dknguyen · Apr 17, 2008

killivolt said:
I believe music, art, new language etc.

Can help to aid anyone at anytime in life.

Yes, like impressing girls. Not sure why this stuff is any different than engineering though, but it's the only reason I have non-engineering related activities.

UTMonkey · Apr 18, 2008

I disagree. THe reason I started music so late was because I was forced to take a CRAPPY music class in elementary school which completely turned me off from instruments, singing, and even listening to music in general for years and years and years to come (about 6 years or so). Terrible rules and we were not allowed to pick our instruments and were FORCED to use recorders which was terrible because the notes were not intuitive (and I know I'm not the only one that though this). All the different unrelated finger combinations for different notes rather than pianos, xylophones, guitars, or stringed instruments where it's "one more finger on is one note higher".

Only do it if you're going to do it right, or else don't waste money to do more damage by not doing it at all.

I am not sure you are disagreeing with me, what you are saying is your school tried it, made it dull and uninteresting and that turned you off.

It is to your credit that you are self-actualised enough to not let that turn you off learning music at all.

quixotron · Apr 18, 2008

dknguyen said:
Music's not worthless. Do you know how hard the musicians in fine arts have to work to get in and stay there? Probably harder than anyone else on campus. You can half-ass your way through a lot of programs (like most academic degrees, engineering included- it's called cramming and some people are very very good at it) but anyone who is in music is downright dedicated.

I used to think like that too until I actively pursued playing an instrument. I still hold the same opinion about drawing artists though.

I disagree. the natzis executed musicians becoz they werent "essential" workers. on top of that, how the hell do you grade a musician? you look at his notes and compositions or something? thats just foolish.

i like listening to music, but i dont consider it an art or actual work. its a hobby. the musicians exist becoz of us anyways! kids dont need hobbies! they need skills and education that will make them marketable in the industry. learning to play the bassoon is not going to pay my bills or contribute to society.

but an electronics class or a skill in ham radio will. thats how i got my job in the aerosppace industry, i was actually asked about my credentials a s a ham operator. not whats my favorite color or who do i think is better mozart or beethoven. thats just nonsense!

electrical engineering is the most important and noble of all sciences. w/o it, we would be stuck in the dark ages! hunting for food, gathering and whatnot!

Nigel Goodwin · Apr 18, 2008

quixotron said:
learning to play the bassoon is not going to pay my bills or contribute to society.

All those super rich musicians must just be pretending to be rich!

Even disregarding 'super rich' ones, there are a massive number of people world wide who make their living from performing music.

Stupid thing to disagree with in an electronics forum, as a LOT of electronics is to do with the recording and performance of music.

killivolt · Apr 18, 2008

quixotron said:
electrical engineering is the most important and noble of all sciences. w/o it, we would be stuck in the dark ages! hunting for food, gathering and whatnot!

aaah so you do believe in evil-ution ................. just kidding

dknguyen · Apr 18, 2008

quixotron said:
electrical engineering is the most important and noble of all sciences. w/o it, we would be stuck in the dark ages! hunting for food, gathering and whatnot!

The Aggies at my university would disagree with you. THeir faculty quote is "Without us, you'd be starving, homeless, and naked." WHen I read that it really made me think.

3v0 · Apr 18, 2008

Nigel Goodwin said:
All those super rich musicians must just be pretending to be rich!

Even disregarding 'super rich' ones, there are a massive number of people world wide who make their living from performing music.

Most of the art related professions have a few at the top making big money with a hoard of people who have a "day job" or drop out altogether. Most artists who have not made it need that day job.

In the past one major problem was the musicians received a small percentage from the sale of their work. Now that they can market themselves and their music on the internet that may change / (is changing?). Do not know hope so.

3v0 · Apr 18, 2008

dknguyen said:
The Aggies at my university would disagree with you. THeir faculty quote is "Without us, you'd be starving, homeless, and naked." WHen I read that it really made me think.

Sort of reminds me a the post title "I am the most important...".

It takes many disciplines to make the world work. Modern farm machinery are packed with electronics. The electronis run programs written by CS types and ag engineers. The electronics are in machines designed by mechanical engineers. The parts are machined from metal from mines and processed in a foundry. The machines are operated by farmers....

To say one is more important then the other is wrong.

quixotron · Apr 18, 2008

3v0 said:
Sort of reminds me a the post title "I am the most important...".

It takes many disciplines to make the world work. Modern farm machinery are packed with electronics. The electronis run programs written by CS types and ag engineers. The electronics are in machines designed by mechanical engineers. The parts are machined from metal from mines and processed in a foundry. The machines are operated by farmers....

To say one is more important then the other is wrong.

Yes but electrical is by far the superior and most important. and dont get me started on our infinite contributions to mankind.

mneary · Apr 18, 2008

The argument of Who Is Most Important often gets resolved when the garbage collectors go on strike.

quixotron · Apr 18, 2008

mneary said:
The argument of Who Is Most Important often gets resolved when the garbage collectors go on strike.

i just dont view music as important in our education system. its a nice little hobby dont get me wrong, but not important in ones educational experience.

kids today in america at least, are being flung into worthless classes-home economics, music, history, literature. all of these have nothing to do with making it in the real world.

our kids need the maths and sciences and then apply them to engineering to become a truly contributing member of society. music imho, is just a nice extracurricular activity but hardly something of merit.

43617373 · Apr 18, 2008

But without music, history, and literature classes. You would find a dangerously low number of people getting liberal arts degrees and filling the much needed postitions in groccery stores, fastfood resturants and as garbage men/women.

jpanhalt · Apr 18, 2008

43617373 said:
But without music, history, and literature classes. You would find a dangerously low number of people getting liberal arts degrees and filling the much needed postitions in groccery stores, fastfood resturants and as garbage men/women.

Would you like to super size that?

There are plenty of jokes keyed to your statement. I couldn't disagree more about the value in total of the fine arts. We would not be human without the arts. It is the fabric of human society dating back at least 25,000 years. John

quixotron · Apr 18, 2008

jpanhalt said:
Would you like to super size that?

There are plenty of jokes keyed to your statement. I couldn't disagree more about the value in total of the fine arts. We would not be human without the arts. It is the fabric of human society dating back at least 25,000 years. John

well, yeah i see your point. however, the american school systems lack the science and math background to compete with foreign schools. for instance, quite a number of indian schools have english as a compulsory language. chemistry, physics, algebra, geometry are electives rather than greek poetry and henry david thoreau.

im gonna be blunt. i graduated from purdue with a 3.8 gpa mastering in electromagnetics and optics. music and literature hasnt done **** for me!
but the maths and sciences insured my plpace in the industry.

i will admit though i am a history buff, but only so becoz its a hobby of mine.

3v0 · Apr 18, 2008

quixotron said:
Yes but electrical is by far the superior and most important. and dont get me started on our infinite contributions to mankind.

This is going to be fun!

Without the research done by physicists EE's would not even have laden jars to play with.

Hank Fletcher · Apr 18, 2008

3v0 said:
This is going to be fun!

Without the research done by physicists EE's would not even have laden jars to play with.

Without literacy, there'd be no keyboards to type with.

Without music, there'd be significantly less content for any electronic media. Arguably, there would never have been the economic impetus for most electronic communications if there hadn't been music (i.e. content).

Speaking of economics, there'd be no people or homes (and consequently, electrical sockets) if it weren't for home economics. Teaching people how to use the most powerful electronic equipment in most of their homes (stoves, washers, sewing machines) just seems like a good idea to me.

Sharing history is a good way to remember that the best efforts of men are of an anthropological nature. The humanities, whether formally or informally understood, define the perogatives of electronics or any other media.

blueroomelectronics · Apr 18, 2008

Are we playing Civilization?
**broken link removed**

Hank Fletcher · Apr 18, 2008

Are we playing Civilization?

Most of us are. A few are suffering from dissocial personality disorder, to some degree.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissocial_personality_disorder

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