# Altium or Multisim ???

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#### Mark68

##### New Member
In both programs I have built a schematic using an IC that has a dual op amp (LM358) when I convert it over to the PCB side, instead of it looking like an IC which is one compenent, it converts it as two. I tryed to put different layers (a top and a bottom ) on both so that I could put one comonent on top of the other making one. But I get tons of errors and the program wont autoroute, it just leaves them both out. I tryed making a rule to allow it, but I just don't know how to do it, or if I should even be trying to do that?

I have been working with Altium lately and not with Multisim so I would like to find out how to fix this problem with Altium rather than go back and start messing with Multisim again, but if I can't get the answer for Altium, Multisim will do.

Thank for any help!

#### MrDEB

##### Well-Known Member
Why not use a pcboard program??

express pcb is free and easy

#### dougy83

##### Well-Known Member
Sounds like each of your parts has a different designator. On the schematic, give each part of the LM358 the same designator, update the des (press T, U) then update the PCB again (D, U).

#### Mark68

##### New Member
what do you mean same designator? ....when I go to properties the only thing that says designator is the name UB and they both have UB?

Can you be a little more specfic?

#### dougy83

##### Well-Known Member
Call them both U1 (if there're no other U1 in the circuit) then update designators by pressing T, U (Tools --> Update desig).

#### i_build_stuff

##### New Member
express pcb is free and easy
but locks you into one vendor..

The one I use is FreePCB, but there are a few other FOSS ones as well.

As for OP's problem, I'd suspect that it's treating the circuit as two LM358's, and using just half of each one.

The PCB editor should let you drag the ratlines over to the unused pins on one chip, and delete the other one.

#### Mark68

##### New Member
As for OP's problem, I'd suspect that it's treating the circuit as two LM358's, and using just half of each one.

The PCB editor should let you drag the ratlines over to the unused pins on one chip, and delete the other one.

That's exactly what is doing. And it won't let me transfer ratlines. It gives me all these clearance errors that one is on top of the other. I even tryed getting rid of all the rules and it still will not route. When I seperate the two, then it will route them as two seperate peices. I have tryed alot of things to get the software to recognize them as one piece and not two with no luck at all. Apparently no one else know's how to do it as well?

#### blueroomelectronics

Both programs are generally very expensive. Most hobbiests use EagleCAD, Sprint Layout or other less than $100 program. #### Mark68 ##### New Member Both programs are generally very expensive. Most hobbiests use EagleCAD, Sprint Layout or other less than$100 program.
I tryed Eagle Proffesional, didn't like it. But If I would have spent all the time trying to figure out Multisim and Ultiboard and Altuim, I would probably have mastered the Eagle. I am using Eagle and starting once again all over.

I am looking for a lm358 dual op amp for Eagle. They do have it but it is missing pins and 2, 3, 5, and I think 6 pins are backwards and I don't know how to make parts nor footprints. (something I obviously need to master)
Any one have that part with footprint in their library? Also is there a really good book or tutorial that you Eagle nut's would recommend? I know if I really want to have a good program and master it, I need to learn to make my own parts. Any info would be appreciated.

By the way still willing to know what the hell to do with Altium if anyone has that answer?

#### blueroomelectronics

##### Well-Known Member
Where did you get a trial version of Eagle Pro?

#### yamanory

##### New Member
I use Multisim. PM me if you need any help. I think the problem is that you're choosing two different LM358 parts instead of using the differerent sections of the same component.

#### BeeBop

##### Active Member
Here is a good EAGLE source page...

SparkFun has some good tutorials as well
Spark tutorial

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#### dougy83

##### Well-Known Member
By the way still willing to know what the hell to do with Altium if anyone has that answer?
I use Altium Designer at work, the only time I get multiple components is if I specifically give them different designators or comment fields.

If you post your .schdoc, .pcbdoc and .pcbprj files I'm pretty sure I can find out what you've done wrong.

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