Alcohol Consump Frequency vs Amount

[arrie]

I'm allergic to apple, so don't drink cider.
Beer on the other hand is too damn bitter for my tongue.

I only drink sweet wine, there are quite a few sweet red and white variants here in SA.
The really dry stuff is also a no-no for me, revolting taste.
You should try some of the sweeter wines, it really tastes different to the rest.
Like lekke juice, with a slight kick.

 

[killivolt]

Wines.

I'm allergic to apple, so don't drink cider.
Beer on the other hand is too damn bitter for my tongue.

I only drink sweet wine, there are quite a few sweet red and white variants here in SA.
The really dry stuff is also a no-no for me, revolting taste.
You should try some of the sweeter wines, it really tastes different to the rest.
Like lekke juice, with a slight kick.

Here's one Ernest and Gallo Restaurant Blend ? (Brand Name.) Most of their wine are cheep tasting so bad they make you shutter. However, I found a Restaurant version really good as a dinner wine. I can't seem to find it on their site however I can reach and grab the thing of the shelf here locally. Go figure.

 

[Boncuk]

It smells and tastes like dirty rotten mouthwash to me.

Well, in that case every drop of wine is pure waste.

Besides that I belong to the privledged people without any sense of smell. I never hear people say: "Good smell or good odour". Instead I very often hear them say: "That stinks."

So I guess it an advantage not be able to smell, especially driving cross-country when farmers spray liquid sh.. on their fields. I'm not bothered at all!

Hans

 

[Boncuk]

Wine in general is made up like this:
250g water; 25g ethyl alcohol; 3g glycerine; 1g pectins; 1g acid; 500mg polyphenols(whatever that is); ...

Polyhenols are etheric oils, also richly contained in orange fruit skins. Peel an orange and squeeze the skin thereby holding a lighter close to it. You'll observe small puffs of fire without any smoke. These are also etheric oils.

 

[killivolt]

polyphenols.

Wine in general is made up like this:
250g water; 25g ethyl alcohol; 3g glycerine; 1g pectins; 1g acid; 500mg polyphenols(whatever that is); ...

Polyhenols are etheric oils, also richly contained in orange fruit skins. Peel an orange and squeeze the skin thereby holding a lighter close to it. You'll observe small puffs of fire without any smoke. These are also etheric oils.

These are also suggested in the study to have increase the French Paradox.

Unlike resveratrol, procyanidins are present in wine in quantities that seem to be high enough to be significant: "Procyanidins are the most abundant flavonoid polyphenols in red wine - up to one gram per litre is found in some traditional style red wines."[12] "...clinical trials of grape seed extract, which have shown that 200 - 300 mg per day will lower blood pressure. Two small glasses (125 ml glass) of a procyanidin-rich red wine, such as a Madiran wine from southwest France, would provide this amount." However several times this amount of procyanidin can be consumed by eating an apple.

 

[Hero999]

There are many other factors:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Paradox

I visited the Ukraine a month ago and they drink lots of wine, eat lots of fat, one of their national dishes is lard, and they have a very high rate of heart disease.

 

[jpanhalt]

@Hero999
There clearly are many factors in heart and vascular disease. Genetics is a huge factor. Read the original Framingham study, not the glossy interpretations of it.

The original study of cholesterol lowering by diet and lifestyle changes was designed as two tailed. That is, could such changes be either bad or good. Results showed no difference in death rates between the groups when analyzed that way. The study analysis was then changed to look only at possible good effects (i.e., one-tailed) and to ignore deleterious effects. A correlation was found in that way. Changing a study design, after it has been completed to fit desired results is scientific misrepresentation, if not fraud in my opinion.

Why was there no effect when analyzed in a two-tailed model? Because of suicides and accidental deaths. That is, the diets were so bad you would rather be dead, were depressed by them, or got killed while bicycling on a motorway. Even in the one-tailed analysis, increase in life expectancy was just 6 months.

If I were to die at 80, I would take good food, wine, etc. in exchange for 6 more months in a nursing home anytime.

None of this is to imply that people with really increased cholesterol should not be treated medically. My point is the over emphasis on just one measure (serum cholesterol) and its non-linear relationship to longevity.

John

 

[arrie]

boncuk said:

Besides that I belong to the privledged people without any sense of smell. I never hear people say: "Good smell or good odour". Instead I very often hear them say: "That stinks."

We actually discuss the smell of wine very often, but only when drinking it for the first time, thereafter, only enjoy the flavours. Must be a South African thing.

You make some interesting statements, John.
I know of a lot of people who improved their bad cholesterol from just altering their diet, and animal fat is a no-no.
Eating fat as a food choice is stupid.
We also have a thing here with people making biltong. They perform much the same process to raw cow fat and eat it like biltong.
Not good, tastes really salty and nice, they say, but not for me.
Someone else once told me that when a human or animal system tries to get rid of toxins, like auto-detox or something, it stores those toxins in the fatty layer.
then you want to eat that. Yuck.
If a restaurant put meat in front of me with a lot of fat on it, I go ballistic.

 

[killivolt]

Role of high transfat's or increase in Triglycerides.

There are many other factors:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Paradox

I visited the Ukraine a month ago and they drink lots of wine, eat lots of fat, one of their national dishes is lard, and they have a very high rate of heart disease.

The types of fat suggested in the study stated the French consumed fat but the fat was not related to animal fat. It was milk and cheese among others.

Lowering the overall effect of triglycerides because they don't eat like Americans.

 

[arrie]

Funny.

I'm almost sure we classify the fat in cheese and milk same as animal fat. I think because, the alpha of it is that it's from an animal.

Needless to say.

Are fats in cheese and milk not also bad for you? I think.
The only good fats according to the brainy folk are from seeds and like stuff.
Ooh..ooh, that reminds me, I haven't had my daily intake of one cup raw sunflower seed. Better get going.

 

[Hero999]

I think it's a lot more complected than the kinds of fats you consume.

For example we're told that a high fat diet promotes weight gain but the Atkins diet has disproved this theory.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atkins_diet

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_research_related_to_low-carbohydrate_diets

 

[jpanhalt]

@arrie,
In the US, we have an ethnic food made from fried pork fat. Might be similar to what you are describing. The real biltong sounds good. I need to find a SA deli in Cleveland.

John

 

[arrie]

I've seen a documentary on the Atkinson diet.
Point was that it didn't work. I know some people have lost weight using it, but so have people doing some other weird things.
Weight-loss is also a state of mind I think. I think some people will stone me on that statement again.
The fat does not necessarily lead to weight gain, but, clogs your main arteries, that can lead to a stroke or even heart failure amongst other things.
Seed fats seem to have the opposite effect.

Hey John, the thing is biltong is not fried/cooked or anything for that matter.
You basically take the raw piece of meat, add some special goodies to it, usually spices, vinegar, oils etc. and hang it in a cool place for a long period.
The meat basically dries out, giving you biltong. You eat it like that, without cooking, for those not knowing.
We also have the pig fat crisp thing here, but I don't eat pork, quite allergic to it. I forgot the proper name we called it, but yes, from what I can remember it was very tasty, mainly due to being very salty.
Biltong is really good, but really expensive, places charge average of R130 per kg. That's rough considering the raw meat is much less, but we love the stuff, that's the problem.
It has been linked to high blood pressure problems, so I suppose eating the fish rather than the biltong is preferred.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

We also have the pig fat crisp thing here, but I don't eat pork, quite allergic to it. I forgot the proper name we called it, but yes, from what I can remember it was very tasty, mainly due to being very salty.

In the UK they are called "scratchings", you can buy them 'fresh' from some local butchers, or in sealed bags like you'd buy potato crisps.

Another lovely 'pig' food, is "black pudding", pigs blood and pieces of fat.

Both are delicious.

You're missing out not been able to eat pork!

 

[jpanhalt]

Hey John, the thing is biltong is not fried/cooked or anything for that matter.
You basically take the raw piece of meat, add some special goodies to it, usually spices, vinegar, oils etc. and hang it in a cool place for a long period.

I know. I looked up the recipe on Wikipedia before my last response.

My comment about fried fat was in reference to this:

We also have a thing here with people making biltong. They perform much the same process to raw cow fat and eat it like biltong.
Not good, tastes really salty and nice, they say, but not for me.

I would still like to try biltong.

John

 

[Hero999]

Are you really allergic to pork or can you just not eat it for religious purposes?

 

[killivolt]

Funny.

I'm almost sure we classify the fat in cheese and milk same as animal fat. I think because, the alpha of it is that it's from an animal.

Needless to say.

Are fats in cheese and milk not also bad for you? I think.
The only good fats according to the brainy folk are from seeds and like stuff.
Ooh..ooh, that reminds me, I haven't had my daily intake of one cup raw sunflower seed. Better get going.

There is a difference in the way they process the milk. I'm not sure but I believe there is no pasteurization of cheeses. I'm not sure if they Homogenize there milk either.

It may be the difference in the way the body will use it. They have not truly concluded why there is Plaque developing. HDL & LDL is not just the indicator.

 

[arrie]

No I'm not Muslim, nor Jewish.
I'm really allergic to the stuff.
That and potatoes, nuts, milk, apples, oranges, mangoes, paw-paw, spanspek(don't know the English name, also a fruit similar to paw-paw), soya and more fruits. I can basically eat strawberries (well, most berries), grapes, watermelon, oh spanspek could be a type of melon, and I believe that's it.

I fell really ill while I was studying full time many years back, doctors wanted to put me in hospital with permanent steroid(or something) feed, and all sorts not nice stuff.
My doc got this great idea, they took a crap-load of blood, I almost looked like a raisin, sent it who knows where for testing. And that is the result. I stopped eating those foods, and I was alive again.
Funny thing was, while studying, every lunch I bought myself a burger and chips. Three big no-no's, burger patties here normally are full of pork and soya, plus the chips.
Interesting he. Oh, and the migraines, I had about three a day, five a week, that was not fun.
Now I may only have 2 migraines a year, you see I love chocolates too much to totally give up on it. But I can live with that.
Interesting.

 

[arrie]

In the UK they are called "scratchings", you can buy them 'fresh' from some local butchers, or in sealed bags like you'd buy potato crisps.

Another lovely 'pig' food, is "black pudding", pigs blood and pieces of fat.

Both are delicious.

You're missing out not been able to eat pork!

No, we call those fat bits something else, but my brain is weak tonight, or alzheimer light, I don't know.
That black pudding sounds interesting, doubt whether I will try it. You can also wrap your mouth around some cow brain, sheep stomach or ostrich anus.

If you want.

 

[Hero999]

The fat does not necessarily lead to weight gain, but, clogs your main arteries, that can lead to a stroke or even heart failure amongst other things.
Seed fats seem to have the opposite effect.

Then why is it some of the studies have indicated an greater improvement in cholesterol in subjects on an Atkins style diet than a calore restricted Mediterranean diet?

New England Journal of Medicine, 2008

Shai et al., 2008[22] studied 322 moderately obese adults over a 2-year period assigning each to one of three diets: a low-fat, restricted-calorie diet (based on the 2000 AHA recommendations); a "Mediterranean", restricted-calorie diet; or a low-carbohydrate, non-restricted-calorie diet (based on the Atkins Diet). Adherence among the participants was high (84.6%). The low-carbohydrate group showed both the greatest weight loss and the most improvement in lipids (cholesterol). The Mediterranean group showed the greatest improvement in glycemic control (related to diabetes). They conclude
The more favorable effects on lipids (with the low-carbohydrate diet) and on glycemic control (with the Mediterranean diet) suggest that personal preferences and metabolic considerations might inform individualized tailoring of dietary interventions.

Interestingly, this study was significant enough that the American Heart Association issued an immediate response to clarify its position (essentially saying that the low-fat diet used in the study is no longer recommended by the AHA and that the AHA's 2006 guidelines emphasize more fiber, vegetables, and "lean" meats).

I'm not saying that the Atkins isn't without its risks or is the best way of loosing wieght. I just think it's a bit more completed than avoiding certain types of fat to reduce the risk of heart disease.