Advice for highschool student

[Marks256]

Hey all. I have a bit of a dilemma... I am in an advanced math class (Math Analysis, which is right before calculus) Because i am off to college not next year, but the year after, i am trying to get in as much math as possible. My problem is, i am getting a "B" letter grade in the class. Yeah yeah, it may not seam like that big of a deal, and i don't mean to brag or anything, as i am looking for real advice, but i am normally an "A" student.

Really, my main concern is, is it worth it? Is that "B" worth it? Is it worth getting up in higher math classes, and getting somewhat lower grades (so once college comes around, i don't have to take a remedial math class)?

Our school councilor said something about this the other day, but i didn't catch what she said about it...

I am worried, because the lower math class grade will lower my GPA (grade point average), but on the other hand, it will be better in the sense that it will be a higher math class.


Thanks in advance!

 

[Krumlink]

Well do you have a GOOD gpa?

Currently, I would get a 3.9, because I have A+ in Biology, A in Tech, A in Maths, and A in Business management.

Just make sure you get a good GPA and dont worry about it. If your college of choice has a average of 3.5 for example, get a 3.7 or at least strive to get that extra point higher. Is it really worth slacking off? Not in my case. It is much easier to do the work right, because then they yell at you etc etc your slacking off etc. It is easier to just do it, because then you can lift that off your chest.

 

[theinfamousbob]

It's not entirely about GPA to get in to college. I have friends here ( https://www.case.edu ) with me who barely scraped through high school. The one was lead programmer for his school's FIRST team, and others are just generally good people. Remember, a college is somewhat of a business, and they want people who will give money to them after the people become successful.

Go in for interviews, take tours, ask a lot of questions, call and e-mail people. Show them you want to go to the college. Don't just let your GPA speak for you.

Not that it doesn't hurt to have a good GPA/SAT score/ACT score.

 

[Krumlink]

Yeah, just because you are good at school, doesnt mean you are good at anything else!

 

[3v0]

Unless you want to go to a BIG NAME school I would not sweat the one B. If you are having problems keeping an A in the class it is better to tackle the beast then wait till collage.

If you dump the class and take it in collage you will be tossing away money. Could be a lot more then the cost of the one class if it causes you to take an extra semester.

Can you spend more time on the class and bring your grade up. Maybe some tutoring would help. That would be the best thing.

 

[jpanhalt]

Really, my main concern is, is it worth it? Is that "B" worth it? Is it worth getting up in higher math classes, and getting somewhat lower grades (so once college comes around, i don't have to take a remedial math class)?

College was a long time ago for me, so my advice comes from that perspective. Also, times have changed. If I am a bit out of date and wrong, I apologize.

First: What are your interests and anticipated major? If you intend to go into the sciences, I would strongly advise getting all of the math you can get as early as possible. A B in high school is no reason to stop, but should be a challenge to try harder. If with your best efforts, you can't improve that grade, then consider what will happen in college. Maybe, reconsider your goals. I don't mean that to be as hard-nosed as it probably sounds, but be realistic. If you are not going into the sciences, then your course of action may be a bit different, based on what GPA you need to get into the college of your choice. My education was a bit lean on liberal arts, but even in disciplines like economics and law, fundamental math can be helpful.

Second: Once you decide you need more math, which is better, a B in high school or a C (maybe a B) in college? Going to some form of graduate school is almost essential in the USA. Your high school grades won't show on your applications to graduate schools, but your aptitude tests (such as the LCATs or MCATs) certainly won't be hurt by having a better background in math.

Third: There is sometines the misconception that taking advanced classes in high school will get one excused from such courses in college. That is not entirely true. If a college has a certain math requirement, the high school class may qualify you for a more advanced class in the field of that requirement. It is unlikely you will actually get college credit that counts toward the graduation requirement for the high school class.

Fourth: Consider a college requirement for pre-calculus (or whatever). You take the high school class and get a B. Should you try to take the more advanced calculus class in college or re-take the pre-calculus? I would suggest "re-taking" the pre-calculus class. You will learn it better the second time and perhaps even get an A for your college GPA. Moreover, most high school and college classes of the same name in science and math are quite different in reality.

Last: If you are going into science, even economics or business, you should consider that having calculus through beginning differential equations is a must.

Good luck. John

 

[3v0]

I am fairly sure that most EE and some CS BS programs start freshman with calc. If the student has a weak math background (not ready for calc) they must take classes to get them up to speed. Doing so can cost the student an extra semester. I think that is what Mark is looking at here.

The only way to be sure that any high school classes count for collage is to make sure the course is approved for credit by the collage/U the student is planning to attend.

Students at our school take collage level courses offered to the high school from the state collage system.

 

[dknguyen]

My engineering faculty didn't look at certain courses. It made up it's own "GPA" (as you call it) from only the courses it did look at. Guess which ones I didn't bother working on? Learn how your program is set up.

EIther way after a few years of university, here are the most important things I learned:
-grades mean a lot less than people make them out to be
-it's possible to pass exams you know nothing on and fail exams you actually studied for
-it's more important to actually know how to use the stuff than to get a good grade (one gets you a job, the other gets you a useless pat on the back)
-don't fret about school so much, there are more important things in life
-lack of a university education never ruined anyone's life, it does not go hand in hand with happiness
-not to care if a girl has a boyfriend or not (don't ask don't tell policy)
-if you like a girl you must act

As to actually answering your question...don't take higher level math classes in university just because your high school said you can- a high school teacher has a superior teaching style and the inferior teaching of university professors is not accounted for. (Most people get Bs in university anyways because B is average, and most university students are A students).

 

[Hank Fletcher]

Much of what dknguyen wrote really hits it:

-don't fret about school so much, there are more important things in life
-lack of a university education never ruined anyone's life, it does not go hand in hand with happiness
-not to care if a girl has a boyfriend or not (don't ask don't tell policy)
-if you like a girl you must act

Especially the part about getting with the ladies - biggest regrets I've ever had is not taking those chances and asking out the prettiest girl in class. When you find out years later that the feeling was mutual, but the opportunity is now lost... what a bummer. For all the anxiety of rejection, not taking those chances were my biggest mistakes. Luckily, it only took me thirty years to clue in, and it all worked out in the end - but if only I could go back in time I could have spared a lot of frettin' about nothing.

Speaking of missed opportunities, that reminds me of the Calculus class I took in high school, which I got an "A" in. There was a chance right in the middle of the semester when one of the fitness teachers (I also had a crush on her, but that's another story) was trying to organize an all-expenses paid trip for a group of students for a week at a fitness conference on the East Coast. I asked my Calculus teacher what she thought of me missing a week (the Calc teacher was also really good - definitely much more than one of those slugging-through-the-textbook courses), and naturally she couldn't recommend it. Conscientious as I am, I turned down the trip offer for another week in Calculus, since I felt like I'd already obligated myself to the requirements of the course. Regrets? I've had a few.

From my perspective now as a teacher, there's just one thing that I have to take issue with. As far as grades go, they do and don't matter, depending on what you want to do with your life. The truth is, grades matter very little in life, with the exception of those who are interested in advancing in the realm (or later, the field) of academics. For many high school students with plans for post-secondary education, grades do matter (but take the time to ask out the pretty girl, too). They play the biggest part of what schools you can go to, and if you do really well, life can be much easier in terms of financial assistance for students who get good grades. For all the things a student is, the only clearly articulated evidence of their accomplishments (and perhaps more importantly, how those accomplishments can be compared with other students') is their grades. Any means of appreciating a single student other than grades takes care, attention, thoughtfulness and understanding. Those are all things teachers have in short supply when it comes to individual students, because the design of educational systems so often requires teaching to the masses.

I guess I better write a few words specifically about Marks256's concern: take a hard course and get a worse grade, or a bird course and get a great grade? In my day, it was an easy decision. The universities I planned to attend had very specific guidelines of what they would and wouldn't accept as courses: a great grade in a bird course just wouldn't have cut it. Also, the colleges openly disclosed what OAC (fifth year high school) courses they would accept as college equivalents. Don't let guesses or rumors guide your education decisions: know exactly what the requirements and expectations are from the colleges you plan to attend.

The best part about high school is that it can be a paint-by-numbers kind of existence. Be fully aware of what each course's outline is, and satisfy those requirements. After school, there are very few situations where people will say, "Here's exactly what you have to do. Do this, and you'll be successful," and because of that, many young people have difficulty adapting to life after school. But while you're in it, I really recommend eating it up. There'll be plenty of time for distractions (and if you've done well, for you to dictate what you want those distractions to be) when you're done school. Take my job: it's a free market society and I'm an adult, not a prisoner. I choose to do my job, and to do it well, but beyond my salary and the occasional performance review, there are very few criteria that either assess or dictate what I can and can't do.

Whatever you do, do what you love, and love what you do. If asking the pretty girl out occupies your thoughts, do what you love and make something of your imaginations. If the law and circumstance dictates that you must be in school, resign yourself to loving what you have to do, becausing doing so will result in the greater reward. Girls (or guys, depending on who's reading this) and doing your absolute best on school work are your greatest priorities. That, and staying healthy.

 

[Marks256]

Wow. Thanks for all the info, guys. I suppose i will answer a few questions first.

Well do you have a GOOD gpa?

Yes. Last time i checked it was at 3.939.

Is it really worth slacking off?

That is not what i meant. I love math. Math is something that comes naturally to me (and i do not slack off when it comes to math). But for some reason, i have been having a hard time transitioning into this math class... Maybe it is the fact that i now have a job, and am apart of like 4 different organizations and whatnot. I am doing just fine in my other classes (Metals, Consumer Auto mechanics, Word History and Geography, and Tech Masters [basically running around the school for an hour and a half fixing teachers' computers and their other problems])

I do know for a fact that half the problem of my low math grade is that it is at the end of the day, and i am usually pretty burnt out come precalc time. But, that is still no excuse for my low grade. I think i did pretty well on the test we took today. There was only one problem i couldn't figure out how to do, otherwise all the other questions i was able to answer very quickly. It was something about building a polynomial function out of a set of roots....

If you dump the class and take it in collage you will be tossing away money. Could be a lot more then the cost of the one class if it causes you to take an extra semester.

Yes, i mentioned this in the OP (remedial classes).

What are your interests and anticipated major?

I intend to major in either Electrical Engineering, or Computer Engineering.

don't fret about school so much, there are more important things in life

That is another one of my problems. I really don't have a social life, and i am in need of a girl friend. I spend my friday nights down in my basement working on some project or another, and never take time to "get out there"...

if you like a girl you must act

You know, that is the best bit of advice i have heard in a while. I agree.






Thanks for all the advice so far! More is welcome!

 

[mneary]

Tutoring was suggested as a way to help you, but as I read it was to receive tutoring.

Since you're operating at a B level, you may be a candidate to tutor someone who is struggling to keep a C or D. Few better ways to learn something than to try to explain it.

 

[3v0]

Your suggestion about tutoring another student is not a bad one. Mark's problem seems to be a lack of time. Time management is the key here. He may have to give up something else to make it work.

 

[dknguyen]

That is another one of my problems. I really don't have a social life, and i am in need of a girl friend. I spend my friday nights down in my basement working on some project or another, and never take time to "get out there"...

I'd get try to get that one in order ASAP. It was the same thing with me, but it doesn't does not seem to hold up after a few years of engineering. I started to feel ridiculously lonely at the 2.5 year point to the point where I didn't really feel like doing any work at all anymore (like doing nothing when you obviously have free time in between classes just because you don't feel like working because it feels like you don't have anything to work for). I had to sacrifice school stuff to make up for it and rhe result is I'm still in catch up mode (in both school and social aspects) right now. It's a matter of preserving your sanity and will to work. Depression...isn't fun.

 

[Hank Fletcher]

Your personal health is a big priority. In fact, arguably your health is your biggest priority, not just some bonus result when everything else has fallen into place.

I do know for a fact that half the problem of my low math grade is that it is at the end of the day, and i am usually pretty burnt out come precalc time.

Because of the resilience of their bodies, teenagers are rarely fully aware of how both extremes and even nuance in their diet, sleep, exercise, study, and recreation can materilize as significant effects on their achievements.

In my first year of university, I slept 6 hours a night, drank 6 pints of beer a day, exercised 2 hours a day, had an active social life, and still pulled down some of the best grades in my academic history. But I was all over the map when it came to making some sort of plan for my life, and realizing that I was an adult and as such no one had more responisibility for my life and its direction than I did, I decided to make some changes, to make some priorities. I decided to become more aware of how seemingly distinct activities in my life had in fact a great deal to do with one another in terms of my success in any area.

Knowing that you get burnt-out by the end of the day, realize that the course you have then is a priority. Treat and prepare for your math class with the same respect a hockey player has for a game or a musician has for a performance. As a priority, determine what you can change in your routine so that when it's time for math class, you're at the peak of your energy. Many people make the mistake of presuming that change means sacrifice, but it doesn't have to be and there's really no point in doing things that way (e.g. if by changing something you have to sacrifice something and consequently the net effect is nil, what's the point of changing in the first place?).

You want to look for a change that's a win-win solution, like eating more fruits and vegetables for lunch and less fried food and caffeine. The win-win there is that you'll discover more variety in what you can eat (so you'll enjoy more the experience of eating), you'll have more of the right sort of energy to get you through the day, and you'll be laying the foundation for a better quality of life for the rest of your life. Being aware of all those benefits should help keep you buzzed enough about making that change, getting you over the hump of, "But junk food tastes good!" It doesn't, by the way: you're just another victim of market conditioning.

Know that success is within your grasp, and that only doubt is your greatest impediment to success. Make a priority of the things you want to succeed in, and make available to yourself the resources you need to support your priorities.

Depression...isn't fun.

Again, this is a real and practical health issue, and ought to be addressed with the due respect it deserves. The limits of institutionalized education are realized as people approach their late teens and early twenties. As the capabilities of your conscience expand beyond the scope of what can be articulated and meaningful to you by any institution (public education, university, church, prison, etc), your conscience is initially poorly prepared for the independence and responsiblity that operating with full mental health requires.

Do what we all do: blame the institution. You're right to do that, although you should recognize that reaching the limits of what the institution could provide is an accomplishment, not a punishment. In school we continuously satisfy individual egos by creating hypothetical criteria and then rewarding individuals when they satisfy that criteria. Late teens and twenty-somethings often feel rudderless: Where is my hypothetical criteria? Where is my reward? Who am I? What's the point?

Here are some of the amazing answers to those questions. There is no encompassing, hypothetical criteria - this is reality, not pretend. The is no reward, no final prize, no ceiling to accomplishment - virtue and the journey are the reward (the saying "Virtue is its own reward," is too often misinterpeted in the negative sense, as in, "There is no benefit to being virtuous other than being virtuous," but the latter is not accurate).

Who you are, and what the point is, have more specific answers. Search deep within your soul for those answer, and give yourself the benefit of time to discover your own, very personal answers to those things. For some people, they're fortunate these answers come early on in their life, for others it takes more time, but it's not a race, and it's something better done properly rather than quickly.

Be absolutely honest with yourself, and really look for that spark, that passion, that thing you love and will have energy for despite any adverse conditions you may have to endure. Realize that it's okay, even desirable, to have a dream and to pursue that dream to fruition. Realize that the key to success, the key to happiness and out of the funk of depression, is in knowing that there is meaning in discovering your passion. Realize that defining that thing you love above all else will bring you more than halfway to your goal. Realize that the remainder of the journey to your goal is merely a matter of recognizng that the goal can be manifest in reality.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

My daughters recently moved to sixth form (year 12) at a different school (her old school didn't have a sixth form), at her old school only herself and another girl (Fiona) got A*'s at GCSE - in the top set for maths they were in, only a couple of others got A's, some B's, some C's - and some considerably worse!.

She's now doing AS level maths at the new school, and EVERYONE in the top set there at maths got A* - they can't understand how so few did so at her old school. It not the schools fault, but the standard of pupils they get!, most good students go to another local school.

Anyway, that's explained the background - now to the point:

As she's from a different school, she's not done all the stuff they have, and likewise she's done some stuff they haven't - but she's been disturbed by the homework results. She's been getting C's, and the rest have all been getting A's - and she's now been told by the teacher that after you've done your homework you're supposed to check it with the answers in the back of the book, and go back and correct it before you hand it in!. This is standard practice at the school, and not just sixth form, but all the way through.

She refuses to do this, because as she says, it's hardly showing your capabilities, and not showing the teacher where you might be struggling a bit.

I also wonder what the other kids are going to do in exams?.

 

[Hank Fletcher]

She refuses to do this, because as she says, it's hardly showing your capabilities, and not showing the teacher where you might be struggling a bit.

I also wonder what the other kids are going to do in exams?.

Kudos to your daughter. Her refusal, though, does fall into that murky region between doing what's right and doing what's best. Balancing her righteous indignation at what she's correctly identified as inferior teaching practice, with satisfying the teacher's criteria for the purpose of being able to compete in her new environment, is something you're likely most capable of guiding your daughter on (given you two are most familiar with the specifics of your situation).

The students might do fine on their exams, but further to my previous post in this thread, where are they going to be when the exams are over? There's no correcting your answers by looking them up in the book in the real world.

My suggestion is that your daughter does her work, checks it, and marks it herself, giving herself the grade she knew she'd get first round. Then she makes the corrections for the gratuitous hoop-jumping her teachers expect. Incidentally, let's face it: hoop-jumping for your employer is often unavoidable, so she might as well practice getting good at it now. I expect that your daughter's diligence over time will reveal that there is little discrepancy between her original answers and those in the back of the book. The reward there will be her self-satisfaction of being able to prove that the teacher's method of essentially having students photocopy the back pages is inferior to your daughter's superior, formative assessment.

 

[dknguyen]

Aren't there exams in this math class? Or are you soley referring to grades on the returned work and not the actual grade?

I guess it would depend on whether the other students were actually writing down their work and then just changing their answer at the end to the one in the back of the book if it was wrongl; or if they were actually correcting their work to get the answer in the back of the book.

 

[3v0]

A university education is about more then your field of study. It is about scope/perspective/horizons. It is about having you beliefs challenged. Enlightenment.. If not it is just a glorified trade school.

It is OK to be a bit unhappy about not having a girlfriend. But being depressed about it is what?
The source of depression should be determined and dealt with prior to seeking a relationship. People are often "more happy" in a relationship, but one is not required to be happy. A good relationship is a bonus.

Being happy is mostly a choice. Half empty / Half full. That sort of thing. Some people are happy in what others call miserable conditions. Others have everything they could want (including a knockout wife of SO) and are very unhappy. Life is what you make it.

Given the choice I would rather be happy doing what I want to do.

-lack of a university education never ruined anyone's life, it does not go hand in hand with happiness

But having to pay for one that did not result in a degree can, and has. Party ON !

I know people with and without degrees. The RIGHT degree and grades provide a chance to do the work you love. The sort where you would without pay because you like what you do. The right degree with the right grades will let you do that.

Sure you can have a social life and date the ladies. But that comes third... As Hank said your health is first. While in school you education is second.

 

[Marks256]

Aren't there exams in this math class? Or are you soley referring to grades on the returned work and not the actual grade?

I guess it would depend on whether the other students were actually writing down their work and then just changing their answer at the end to the one in the back of the book if it was wrongl; or if they were actually correcting their work to get the answer in the back of the book.

Exams are the only things that are graded in that class. We do have daily assignments, but those are just "practice". The problem is, our teacher never explains new stuff thoroughly enough. He just runs through one or two problems, and expects us to know it from there. Lately i have been able to search the net and find a good math site that goes more into depth, which helps.





I am not THAT big of a junk-food person. I am not like the people that eat at fast food everyday, and glub themselves with crap like that. But, i am not the type of person who limits themselves on life's joys, either.

 

[dknguyen]

The problem is, our teacher never explains new stuff thoroughly enough. He just runs through one or two problems, and expects us to know it from there.

THat's good. At least he's not babying you guys. THat's exactly what university is like- profs know their stuff really well, but they are terrible at teaching it, have less time to teach it than high school teachers, and can't give you as much individual attention as high school teachers. Ask anyone who went to my high school and they will collectively tell you that our high school made you LESS prepared for university.