333000 Hz frequency generator to 1 Hz accuracy - need assistance

[AnalogKid]

Meaning that frequency tolerance of 6 digits is meaningless.

Not to the alternative-(medicine/physics/whatever) crowd. They see extended precision as some sort of validity. Resonance is one of the old-school holy words, and fractal is the newcomer.

ak

 

[Tony Stewart]

Only

Not to the alternative-(medicine/physics/whatever) crowd. They see extended precision as some sort of validity. Resonance is one of the old-school holy words, and fractal is the newcomer.

ak

Unfortunately the alternative crowd may not realize that large resonators cannot possibly maintain the symmetry of 6 digits like the crystallography of synthetic quartz or ceramic. The cone thing is no exception.

 

[David Lowrance]

Goal,

Subject is to create a local frequency reference with 6 digit accuracy.

https://www.nyu.edu/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/aj39/NMRmap.cgi

NMR tables show at the low end 5 digit accuracy but at the high end they are 6 digits to get a nuclear magnetic resonance that is accurate.

Copper lands in the 6 digit section.

Thanks,
Dave L

 

[kubeek]

That is complete nonsense.

 

[dr pepper]

I dont think you will get a positive response on this forum, this isnt the usual kind of discussion.

You right about the xtal oven in your f gen, its probably out, if its not been callibrated for a while maybe a long way out.
Your also right about dividing down a 10mc xtal to 1 kc then doing the same with the satellite rx, I built mine to match 10kc from the sat rx to 10kc divided down from a 10mc voltage controlled xtal osc.
If you dont mind messing with the f gen there may be a voltage i/p on the oven osc, and you could fit a voltage control connector on the back, and build the control circuit and sat rx in a seperate case, then trim the f gens osc directly, I'd be doing that as long as its not particulalry valuable.

333,000hz is 333khz, exactly the same.

Nice woodturning on your coilforms.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

I dont think you will get a positive response on this forum, this isnt the usual kind of discussion.

Nor anywhere else - anyone with the slightest level of knowledge can instantly see how ludicrous all these crazy claims are.

 

[dr pepper]

No argument there, however the op did want to find out some info on an accurate freq source, which I have given.
The thing with this kind of stuff is that even a valid claim would be lost in the mess of ones not backed up with technical proof.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

The thing with this kind of stuff is that even a valid claim would be lost in the mess of ones not backed up with technical proof.

Not really, a valid claim could easily be shown working - and doing what is claimed. To date not one has ever been shown to do this, they are all just scams, with pseudo-science gobbledegook to confuse the non-technical.

 

[Tony Stewart]

Having been a part of sounding rocket upper atmosphere research , I can tell you there is a spectral response of plasma that generates Aurora from solar winds but otherwise that "free space" in air or a vacuum has no such resonance.
Thus the following has no scientific validity.
The frequency resonance of space [the Aether] must match our EM resonance to get the oscillation with space started.

Excitation current is proportional to force and acceleration at any frequency but displacement being the 2nd integral of acceleration drops 60 dB per decade. Thus it is impossible for human touch to sense vibration at 333KHz but you can feel the amplitude modulation of this carrier due to noise.
I feel the vibration come up on the quartz crystal ( this is LF modulation noise not 333KHz)

If the cones can move at this displacement like a crystal, it must be very rigid like glass with a physical resonance like that of a wine glass at 1Khz . Something this size and plasticity could not resonate at 333KHz.
You would only expect electrical resonance with geometric transformer coupling of the cones. The following would describe a rotor acting as a generator under 1kHz but not this physical structure.
Thus the following has no scientific validity
the vibration will supposedly feed the EM side more energy.

you will need 333000 Hz and not 333 KHz.
These values are identical.

 

[dr pepper]

Blatant and direct, but yes probably all correct, I was trying to be nice to the op.

 

[JimB]

If people wish to continue this thread discussing various aspects of precise frequency setting and measurement, that is fine.

If the thread is to become a circus based on various unproven alternative science theories, I think that it should be closed.

JimB

 

[AnalogKid]

Now, about those moon landings...

 

[David Lowrance]

JimB,

I have all I need now to proceed and make some intelligent decisions on clock source design. It is a fascinating subject to embrace.

The cones came from a college professor named Walter Russell who was involved deeply in NMR technology at the time.
If some are actually serious about comprehension of precessional motions at atomic levels I recommend this resource.
https://www.cis.rit.edu/htbooks/nmr/

Thanks all,
Dave L

 

[kubeek]

NMR? Just read the intorduction page and you will see that NMR uses a huge static magnetic field, later described as 1.5 T or more, today more commonly in the range of 6-23 T. That is why they use huge superconductive magnets and you cannot bring ferromagnetic materials within meters of an MRI machine else they become deadly projectiles. Simply oscillating magnetic field like you have will not produce any results.

 

[dr pepper]

Wow 23 teslas, that must be air core then.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

Wow 23 teslas, that must be air core then.

I've seen a few, when we took our daughter round various Uni's looking for a place to study Chemistry. They gave you lot's of warnings (such as removing watches etc.) before entering the rooms.

In the end, purely by coincidence, she went to the Uni with the largest NMR we visited - 16.4T at York (they have a second smaller one as well, but still bigger than most Uni's). They have three where she's doing her Phd, 2 x 9.4T and an 11.7T.

 

[Tony Stewart]

When NRC invented portable MRI's that moved over the patient, their 7T fields in the basement imploded every CRT screen image in the skyscraper research facility.

You can tune the 333kHz crystal with varicap diodes in a simple CMOS XO.

It seems they want to transmutate atomic mass by piezo excitation of metals to convert common into precious metals. ...alchemy....blasphemy...

 

[David Lowrance]

OK, technical flow, I can do this, since now we have interest in the technical detail of the project, and there is confusion about what resonance I am trying to hit.. certainly not physical vibration of the cones! Mass resonance vibration in the copper.

Composition of the copper atom, shows the nuclear bundle is magnetic. In other words if we can spin up the nucleus of the atom it becomes a dynamo generator, from the positive charge side of the electric field, rather then from the normal negative electron side of the field we manipulate from outside. [Thus we activate the counter EMF from inside to become the generator on the surface.]

NMR technology allows us to adjust the nuclear resonant frequency of photon release, based on the magnetic field intensity. In other words we can tune the NMR resonance to many frequencies, by changing the magnetic field level.
The lower we move the magnetic field intensity the lower the NMR resonance frequency will go. We do not need a monster magnet at 400 MHz spin up frequency in hydrogen as in medical MRI units. We are not going to be scanning a human body for many elements, but merely two possible targets, the two isotopes found in copper wire. Spinning them up should produce an electric field.

If you got to the section in the NMR training with the cute little moving pictures, you can see what a 1/4 wave pulse at the NMR frequency does. It tilts the nuclear field over to 90 degrees of the applied magnetic field direction. We then provide a relaxation time for the nuclear magnetization to move back up, and as it does it spins up. The stronger the applied magnetic field is, the faster it will spin up and the higher the NMR photon release will be in frequency. This is then the relationship of the magnetic field to the photo release frequency in NMR formulas. We already know we will only be using copper, so we do not even need to scan, we can set the magnetic field to produce 333000Hz pulses.

Now During the relaxation time, as the field of the mass of the atom circles, the size of the circle shrinks, and when it crosses critical angle, there is a release of energy. This is very similar to current moving up a cone. In NMR they focus on collecting the RF energy, which indeed is very weak in the normal process.

The applied pulse must be at the NMR frequency with a 1/4 pulse width of the resonant frequency.
In other words we set up a 333000Hz pulse with 12.5 percent duty cycle and 87.5 percent relaxation time.
This pulse will tilt the magnetic field of the atoms to exactly 90 degrees of the magnetic field pole crossing the cones.
It will then relax, and for the next 87.5 percent of the 333000Hz cycle it will interact with both the electric field and the space charge, where it derives it's power to self sustain.

Atoms are totally self sustaining, and self regulating forms of energy fields. They do not wind down, as proven with spectral charts that never change. They restore their dimensions and frequencies over and over forever short of a nuclear explosion where the strong force is released. This type of release, is done by generating a physical shock wave converging to the center, in platonic form. Electric fields are 137 times too weak to destroy them.


The part of this which science is not yet up on, is the vibration field part. I commented on this before and got a lot of negative responses.

Anyway, vibration works with platonic form fields that are basically spherical, similar to the first atomic bombs. They move outside to inside the inside to outside at specific frequency.
They are distance tuned from a center node point. This is atomic geometry.

During NMR the copper atom will interact with both the Electrical vector angle and the vibrational field of space [powering the atom.]
As you build up a vibration field it will condition the area of space around the source of the vibration and become stronger over time.

The concept is to hit the correct frequency, whereby the vibration will reflect back into the atom, and deliver more energy to the electric field. A Space resonance.

This has nothing to do with the atmosphere, the air, sound, or the electron shell bond of the cone vibrating up physically.
The nucleus of the atom is free floating in a field well down inside the electron shells, where the atoms bond to other atoms.
It can indeed be vibrated up in many ways at very high frequencies, but RF is usually in the MHz ranges.

If we increase the energy of the spin during the relaxation timing, the EM interaction should receive more energy as well.
In physics we learn, that charge is nothing more then spin. Positive and negative spin in opposing direction, for what that is worth. We see the result in electronics as a counter EMF for any motion of electron energy we apply from outside the atom. The nuclear bundle counters it and stabilizes it back to normal dimension and charge.

Anyway, we know that NMR technology works, and with neo magnets and RF, I have caused a flat ground bar 1/4" thick to take on a charge between the two faces of the bar, as I felt it vibrate up. This was slowly tuning an analog F gen across about 13 Mhz with a 1T magnetic field angles through it as I recall.

It's time now for me to get more serious with the NMR sync, and get some stability to the effects I have seen randomly happen.

Pulse timing and DC bias on the coil must be cyphered correctly to hit the NMR frequency we need for space resonance.
333000Hz pulses with 12.5 percent duty cycle on time, and 87.5 percent relaxation where the energy conversion of vibration to EM happens.
Run the 333000 through a 1 of 4 counter to get a relatively accurate tilt pulse.
That pulse will have a frequency of 1.332 Mhz. By chance happens to be the pulse range for the QEG conditioning.

If the information is quackery, as suggested by many here on the site, and space does not resonate up as a vibration bubble, then the gain for me is "understanding" NMR much better. I have already done the vibration bubbles with other types of devices.
If you have looked at information on the Searl disc, you may have noticed the little 90 degree pulsing magnets setting sideways off the main magnetic field of the large iron cylinder. Same function, they are NMR pulsers for the outer copper cylinder surface.

The people who came up with this stuff could not explain it, they did not have information on the technology we have today. Most were branded quacks, but in a lot of the work I find these 90 degree positions between coils, as they did not understand the rotational qualities of the magnetic core of the copper medium, and how you can rotate the field using an accurately timed pulse.

Copper responds with far less energy loss in an AC transmission line, then in a DC one. Copper wants to rotate the field, and the rotation is in 3 dimensions. NMR provides a lot of basic understanding for this.

Dave L

 

[dr pepper]

I think you've blown it this time mr lowrance, you were warned.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

Loony thread closed! - moderator