16F84 PIC stupid questions!

[epilot]

hi eblc1388,

thanks for your guide,

i have no problem with the option part and my adjusts are exactly like what you showed

i even made the VDD and output parts in the option part "high" to measure their voltage on the circuit, i could get the voltage and saw that there is no problem with their parts

i am using version 1.21


the only thing is that i used from 2N2905 instead 2N2907 for the hardware
2N2905A SI-P 60V 0.6A 0.6W 45/100
2N2907A SI-P 60V 0.6A 0.4W 45/100

and i think there is no problem with them

do you think the problem can caused because of my pics?
i have 3 of them
if i suppose they are burned or dameged then do you think i'll get that message?
"program Verify failed on line 0, program aborted"

some times the software give me an error message about fuses?

 

[eblc1388]

if i suppose they are burned or dameged then do you think i'll get that message? "program Verify failed on line 0, program aborted"
some times the software give me an error message about fuses?

This changing error suggested to me that there is problem in the power supply of the programmer, as Nigel has correctly pointed out earlier.

I checked the weblink again and the author is using 330uF after the bridge rectifier. But he is using DC input whereas you are using AC input.

You must use a 2200uF or larger capacitor if you are feeding AC to the bridge rectifier.

Hope this help.

 

[epilot]

hi again

i cameback here to ask another question
i have heard that the PARALLEL softwares(compilers) can not be used with XP windows while all my experience with the Nigle software were with XP windows....
do you tthink the problem is because of this?

another question is that what is difference between a compiler and a debugger?
i have heard that i acn program my pics with a debugger too?!

 

[Joel Rainville]

hi again

i cameback here to ask another question
i have heard that the PARALLEL softwares(compilers) can not be used with XP windows while all my experience with the Nigle software were with XP windows....
do you tthink the problem is because of this?

Parallel port programmers work fine on XP as long as they were written for it. WinPicProg and IC-Prog for example work very well with parallel port programmers on XP, no problem there.

another question is that what is difference between a compiler and a debugger?
i have heard that i acn program my pics with a debugger too?!

What you've heard is probably that you can program your PICs with the ICD/ICD2 which are both programmers AND debuggers.

A debugger lets you stop your program in the middle of its execution and inspect memory locations to spot logic problems and/or any kind of bug your code might contain by stepping through it, one instruction at a time. It's like watching what's going on inside your PIC in slow motion. And you have the remote to control everything It is a very useful tool. You can build an ICD2 clone by following the instructions published on **broken link removed** if you are interested.

 

[Jay.slovak]

It's like watching what's going on inside your PIC in slow motion

I will just Add, very slow motion. It takes few seconds to start and stop the program

 

[epilot]

ok thanks for your guides

then i think it is better i ask all my questions here

what is diference between a 16C84 and 16F84 pic? and can i program a 16F84 with a 1c84 programmer like this http://sami.ticalc.org/e_84prog.htm ?

since i am very beginner at PICs so i let myself to ask the following questions too :roll:

what MPLAB does really? i think it convert a C or assembely code into hex file,is this correct?

what a CCS is really?

if we have a basic and c program then how we can convert it into hex file? and is the result the same if both do a certain job?

really sorry

 

[epilot]

oh i forgot
how i can find out that a software is designed for serial or parallel port?
WINPICPR, icprog, Wpic, ....?

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

ok thanks for your guides

then i think it is better i ask all my questions here

what is diference between a 16C84 and 16F84 pic? and can i program a 16F84 with a 1c84 programmer like this http://sami.ticalc.org/e_84prog.htm ?

You shouldn't really be using such old obselete chips, the 16C84 was replaced by the 16F84, probably about early/mid 90's?, the 16F84 in turn was replaced by the 16F628, around the late 1990's. But all three use the same progammer hardware, it's only programmer software that makes the difference. Originally PicProg (long before it became WinPicProg), only supported the 16C84, as that was the ONLY EEPROM PIC there was, after it was replaced by the 16F84 I upgraded it to support that as well.

So if you've got a box full of the old chips?, fair enough, but don't buy them, buy a later, cheaper, higher spec chip instead.

since i am very beginner at PICs so i let myself to ask the following questions too :roll:

what MPLAB does really? i think it convert a C or assembely code into hex file,is this correct?

MPLAB is a collection of programs integrated together, essentially a text editor, simulator, and assembler. It also has links to MicroChips own programmers, and a link to MicroChips C compiler.

MPLAB converts ASSEMBLY source code into a HEX file (by calling MPASM, the MicroChip assembler). It doesn't compile C source code.

what a CCS is really?

It's a C compiler, it tales C source code and produces a HEX file.

if we have a basic and c program then how we can convert it into hex file? and is the result the same if both do a certain job?

You need the correct compiler for the source you have, that will than produce a HEX file that you can load using your programmer.

 

[epilot]

hi Nigel and thanks

no i hve no 16C84 version i would like build that programmer that you can see its link at above but it was designed for 16c84 and i would like to know if i make it and use from your software and 16F84 version does it do work or no?


my mean about "if we have a basic and c program then how we can convert it into hex file? and is the result the same if both do a certain job? " is that if the only lang i know is C lang and my programmer is a basic version for example can i exchange my C codes into hex and then load them into my basic software and send them into my pic?
anyway i think any program at any lang should be converted into hex files!?

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

hi Nigel and thanks

no i hve no 16C84 version i would like build that programmer that you can see its link at above but it was designed for 16c84 and i would like to know if i make it and use from your software and 16F84 version does it do work or no?

No, that's a serial port programmer.

my mean about "if we have a basic and c program then how we can convert it into hex file? and is the result the same if both do a certain job? " is that if the only lang i know is C lang and my programmer is a basic version for example can i exchange my C codes into hex and then load them into my basic software and send them into my pic?
anyway i think any program at any lang should be converted into hex files!?

A programmer doesn't use any kind of language, all it does is transfer HEX files (a format for storing the actual machine language instructions for the processor) to the chip itself. Whatever program actually generated the HEX file is completely irrelevent - and the HEX file doesn't even comtain any such information.

 

[epilot]

hello again

i started and built 2 other kind of pic programmers
both were JDM serial programmers,but there was no success with writing into pic with them...
i got this error "verify failed at address 0000h!"

i got -+10v at TXand RTS and DTR so i think the problem may be from other thing...
i want to back to parallel hardwares so does anyone know any other link.....


i am very confused after making 3 unsuccessed programmers,1 parallel and 2 serial :cry: :?

 

[epilot]

hi

i deside to try this: http://www.covingtoninnovations.com/compumenu.html

does anyone have any idea about it?

thanks

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

hi

i deside to try this: http://www.covingtoninnovations.com/compumenu.html

does anyone have any idea about it?

Assuming you mean the NOPPP programmer?, it's a programmer reduced to the minimum number of parts - as such, compromises are made, which may affect your ability to get it working?. The website you referred to even recommends you not to use it!.

Most parallel port programmers are based on the enhanced version of the original David Tait design, and you can't really go wrong with those - they are simple to understand, work well, and supported by more software than any others. There are a number of such designs on my website, the P16PRO40 is a reliable, well tested, design, why not build that?.

 

[epilot]

Hi Nigle

thanks as always

yes after hundreds of internet search about serial and parallel programmers i found out that the most parallel circuits are base of David Tait design....anyway the first hardware i built was a design base it but there was a problem to write into pic by it, i ever got an abort error although i had about 13.5V at MCLR pin...

ok can you please let me know the URL of "P16PRO40"? is that a prallel design?

where is your website?

kind regards

 

[epilot]

ohh i think i found your website

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

ohh i think i found your website

One of them, the one I was refering to is in my signature at the bottom of every post!.

 

[epilot]

hi Nigle

i found that programmer in your website but it seems it is a kind of (version of) that parallel programmers designed by David Tait and i fear to build it with no success such as the first version


some houres ago i built an easy uJDM programmer **broken link removed**

but like always i had this problem "verify failed at address 0000h!" :cry:

my PC com port TXD and DTR and RTS ahve +-10V or 10.5v so my MCLR pin has near 10V but i am not sure if this voltage is enough or not?! i think i need for more than 13V for that pin...but i have heard that if my PC TXD,DTR and RTS have a voltage more than 7.5 or 8V then i can run the serial programmers on them,so?

thanks

P.s don't you think the problem(for all kind of hardwares i have built nt only THE uJDM) is from my windows or my PC...

 

[Joel Rainville]

but i have heard that if my PC TXD,DTR and RTS have a voltage more than 7.5 or 8V then i can run the serial programmers on them,so?

Building a serial programmer that uses a RS232 level converter i.e. a MAX232 interface chip is generally a better way to go instead of those serial designs that rely on the signal coming straight out of your serial port.

Also, the David Tait design works very well, I have built two simple versions in the last months. The first time, it took me nearly a week to get it to work. The second I built took about 15 minutes. 8) The problem is often finding acceptable compromises in the parts list. But the basic 7407 buffer/PNP transistors design should be pretty easy to build, provided you get all the right parts, and use the proper software.

If you decide to give the Tait/P16PRO(40) design another try and post your progress/problems here, I'm sure the help you'll get and a little perseverance from your part will get you a working programmer in the end.

 

[epilot]

Hi Joel
at first did you get my PM and my Email i have sent you at your hotmail address?


i think i couldnt understand the first lines of your last post,
do you mean i should use from a serial hardware with an external power supply? what "a MAX232 interface chip " means at that line?


which schematic you worked out(about David Tait)and what was the problem for a week?


ok i will try the other version and if ther was any problem i back for your helps
Thanks...

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

hi Nigle

i found that programmer in your website but it seems it is a kind of (version of) that parallel programmers designed by David Tait and i fear to build it with no success such as the first version


some houres ago i built an easy uJDM programmer **broken link removed**

but like always i had this problem "verify failed at address 0000h!" :cry:

my PC com port TXD and DTR and RTS ahve +-10V or 10.5v so my MCLR pin has near 10V but i am not sure if this voltage is enough or not?! i think i need for more than 13V for that pin...but i have heard that if my PC TXD,DTR and RTS have a voltage more than 7.5 or 8V then i can run the serial programmers on them,so?

thanks

P.s don't you think the problem(for all kind of hardwares i have built nt only THE uJDM) is from my windows or my PC...

JDM programmers are well known for their problems, as they generally rely on your PC serial port handshake lines being above specification, so on many boards they just don't work.

The David Tait type parallel programmers have a far better reputation for reliability, and are easier to trouble shoot.

There's always a chance your port could have been damaged?, which would stop it working - or you may have supply problems, the most common being using an unregulated wall wart to power it.