What a (tr)ucking day

[Mickster]

Bilge cleaner is/does exactly what it says on the tin.

It is normally available at marine supply stores and is intended to be used for suspending/cleaning any leaked oil from the 'bilge' (the v-part beneath the engine) of a boat hull. The cleaner is added to the 'bilge' and mixes with the leaked oil, along with any water which may have leaked past the stuffing box...or which has been purposely added, then the movement of the vessel during a voyage causes the oil to be suspended. Upon docking, the resultant mixture is pumped out.

 

[Mickster]

Have a looky here:

**broken link removed**

**broken link removed**

 

[arrie]

Bilge cleaner is/does exactly what it says on the tin.

It is normally available at marine supply stores and is intended to be used for suspending/cleaning any leaked oil from the 'bilge' (the v-part beneath the engine) of a boat hull. The cleaner is added to the 'bilge' and mixes with the leaked oil, along with any water which may have leaked past the stuffing box...or which has been purposely added, then the movement of the vessel during a voyage causes the oil to be suspended. Upon docking, the resultant mixture is pumped out.

Just goes to show how much I know about boating.

 

[arrie]

So I went and washed the whole truck, and struggled a bit to remove the oil cooler. Heck but those engineers chosen the most awkward place for it.
Then had to clean it at well, very messy job.
It cost my some tremendous sunburn to the forhead and neck area, a complete sore boddy, very sore feet for some reason, and black arms.
Darm, how do you get this freeking oil off, five different types of soap and a nail brush, and the only places where the oil is off, is where my skin came off.
Any case, here are some photos.
The oil enters and exits the cooler via those two brass looking pipes, and the block via the two holes at the top, one in each corner. To the rear of the cooler sits the oil filter assembly, the big round part for those not to sure.
So the oil pass through the part with the fins, while the water surrounds that.
One interesting thing I've noticed, there is only one entrance/exit for the water. the other possible one was blocked off. So this oil cooler is not a oil cooler, how can the hot water circulate?
On the second photo one can see where the water pipe connects, to the left bottom part of the casing.
The casing was also severely pitted at some places, the grey areas in the first picture.
But guess what other observation I have made?

 

[Mickster]

arrie,

there are indeed two connections for the oil circuit and two connections for the coolant circuit:

The first pic shows both of the oil circuit connections...top left and top right, connected together via the filter housing.

The second pic shows one of the coolant connections at the lower left. The other connection is where the whole cooler assembly attaches to the block.

Now, being familiar with how a system is ideally supposed to work, and having to work with what changes an engineer has made to suit his/her requirements are two very different things. Kinda like the electronics industry too.

After looking at your pics and noting how the kind engineers have made life difficult, there is no bypass available since you have no exclusive access to either circuit. Unless you can bench-test the cooling unit with the filter installed, you are at the mercy of replacing the complete unit and re-testing once installed, or making a blanking plate which blocks off the coolant side of things but leaves the top two passages of the oil circuit intact.

HTH.

 

[arrie]

It actually dawned on me this morning that the 'other' water connection is the block.
My other observation is that the device is not damaged to the point where it could have resulted in such an catastrophic failure.
I'm on my way to merc commercial vehicle now to see them about the problem, but I probably have a head or head gasket problem.

Unfortunately, my other truck also developed a problem, it indicated that the oil level is rising, but the water level stays the same. My thinking here is rings and sump compression. It is also smoking blue quite suddenly. Unfortunately it's on the road currently, so I will have a look when it comes back.

Needless to say, seem to me I can quit whatever I'm doing and become a diesel mack.

 

[Mickster]

...but I probably have a head or head gasket problem.

Unfortunately, my other truck also developed a problem, it indicated that the oil level is rising, but the water level stays the same. My thinking here is rings and sump compression. It is also smoking blue quite suddenly. Unfortunately it's on the road currently, so I will have a look when it comes back.

If there is no obvious visible leak on the cooler, refit the oil filter and plug up one of the oil lines then fill the oil circuit with parafin, or something similarly thin. If you can pressurise it, even better, as there could be a small crack which only opens under pressure from the oil pump.

Rule out the less expensive jobs first...

Now for the other truck.

If the oil level is rising, but the coolant is not being consumed/exchanged, what other reason could cause an addition to the level of the oil?

The only other fluid going through the engine is....fuel.

I'm not familiar with your trucks, but it's possible that you may have a leaking injector. That would cause smoke and also be likely to cause a 'diesel-knock'. Is there any increase/change from the normal engine noise?

Another thing to note, is how the injector lines are attached to the injector and where the injectors are situated, since some engines have the injector inside the rocker cover, with what is known as a 'bridge' going across the top and out through the side of the cover, where the injector line attaches. This arrangement can leak fuel into the engine oil, engine oil into the fuel, or both.

Something to think about.

Mick.

 

[arrie]

Thanks Mick.

I have handed in the oil cooler for testing today, will probably have the results tomorrow, but I suspect that the casing will need replacing, there are to much corrosion around the area where the cooling fins attach to the housing.
If it's fine now, it will get problematic in the future, so I'll correct it now.
I then decided this afternoon to remove the two manifolds, what a struggle, the manifold connects to the rest of the exhaust using three bolts each with a nut, that took some serious time.
When we finally removed the right hand side manifold, the fourth outlet had a lot of water in it, so there you go. My dad removed the manifold, and only later when I picked it up and looked at it, I saw that the third also had some rust on the bottom part, so three and four is damaged.
Luckily this is an ADE engine, and we can only remove the affected tops, which I'll do tomorrow. I'll inspect them fully myself and my dad can buy the required parts on Saturday. I'll refit on Sunday.

As for the other truck, the guy at Merc also said the same thing. He thinks there is a problem with the Bosch diesel pump, huge thing mounted inside the V of the engine.
I'm waiting for the truck to arrive, about 23:00 tonight, I'll go and get an oil sample which will be sent away for detailed analysis tomorrow.
Apparently these guys can tell you a heck of a lot from a vehicle's oil.
But I think that is exactly what is wrong, diesel and oil intermixing, that explains the increasing oil level as well as the blue smoke.

You know a hell of a lot about trucks Mick, how are you involved?

 

[Mickster]

Sorry to hear about the water in the manifold arrie, very unlikely to be from a failed oil cooler. Good that you can repair individual cylinders on that particular engine though.

When you have removed the heads, inspect both sides of each gasket thoroughly. It is likely that removing the heads may obscure any point of failure, due to gaskets being stuck on both the head & block, but try to look for slight erosion marks between the cooling jacket and oil feed/return circuit.

Make sure you have the heads pressure-tested and checked for plane prior to rebuild.

You know a hell of a lot about trucks Mick, how are you involved?

That's quite an over-statement, I don't know a lot about trucks per se, but the principles are much the same between internal combustion engines such as diesel or petrol (gasoline), whatever the manufacturer. There are only a few variations, it is the anciliary parts and their function that are the cause of much confusion.

Starting, charging, cooling and lubrication systems work in pretty much the same way across both platforms. Fuelling and ignition is a different beast entirely.

I'm an automotive tech, who wishes he had chosen a career in electronics all those years ago, but currently uses his hobby knowlege to improve his electrical diagnostic capabilities at work. Kinda sad...still working for the man after punching the clock at 5PM.

 

[arrie]

Thanks.

It always end up like that, all the good people end up working their butts of for others that does not appreciate it.
I really appreciate your comments and advice, it has enlightened my uncharted ways.

I just heard that the oil cooler is also leaking, so that also requires replacing, so it was not a waste of time taking it off. It's just that the replacement part costs R5500 from Merc. But what can you do.
I wanted to also open up the compressor to see if it's fine, but now I'm scared, it seems everything I touch on that truck is broken.

I'll try to remove the two heads today still, but it will only be this afternoon. I was hoping to put everything back together on Sunday, but as you know it's Friday, and all engineering works are closed on Saturday (to test the heads).

The 1729 with the rising oil level. I've made an appointment for it with a bosch service centre to check through. Apparently there are a couple of other related parts that can cause similar symptoms, but the chap there will check it before removing the diesel pump. As soon as that comes off, you talk serious money.
Needless to say, it will be off the road for about five days, so that's something to cry about.
Was hoping to get the 1928 back on the road Monday or Tuesday, but I'm wondering. That's also sad

 

[arrie]

Oh, my heads

So it seems the heads itself are buggered up and needs replacing.
At least that is not too expensive, but I still have a nightmare.
It is tools.
To remove the injector, one needs a special tool referred to as a castle socket.
Also, I need to torque the head bolts 200Nm and an additional 90°.
Wow, that's a lot.
The normal 1/2" sockets apparently does not cut it, they just crack open.
But to find a 3/4" drive 17mm multi-spline heavy duty socket in RSA seems a bit bigger challenge.
I've been to all the tool shops that can possibly sell these types of equipment, no luck.
Only snap-on tools can provide that, but, I'll have to wait 3 weeks.

Now I'm sad.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

Sounds like they are TORX drivers - very common these days.

 

[arrie]

Nope, not torque.
multi-spline is one step up from hex nuts.
If you look at the old gedore spanners, ring end, you'll see exactly what multi-spline is. Same goes for their older sockets, before metrinch type stuff.
Hex has 6 edges, multi-spline has 12 sides.
Step up from that would be torx and star.

 

[mneary]

TORX, not torque. Look it up.

 

[arrie]

Sorry, meant it to be torx.
I know exactly what it is, even have a torx set, my 96 Escort loved torx bolts and nuts.
It seems there is a bit of confusion about what is multi-spline and what not. Funny.
Some think multi-spline is torx or similar, but others say it's 12 point.
Merc people refer to it as multi-spline, so does some tool vendors, but overseas (from internet sites I've visited) it's mostly referred to as 12-point and 6-point(hex in RSA).
Needless to say, I'm not getting any resource on the internet that sells a 17mm 12 point 3/4" drive heavy duty socket either.

 

[Mickster]

For those not familiar with the numerous different bolt heads, here is a link to www.bontool.com which illustrates each particular type.

https://www.bontool.com/knowledge_center/KC_Bolt_Screw_Drive.asp

Arrie,

bit of a bummer about the heads/tools. Have a look at the link below for Merc specific tools:

https://www.samstagsales.com/mercedes.htm

US based but you never know, they may be quicker/cheaper than your local Snap-on rep.

Regards.

 

[arrie]

Hey thanks Mick, I still need to get a castle socket and injector puller/slide hammer.
I found out this afternoon, after a bit closer inspection, that the two heads on the left side furthest back also has rust in the outlet port, so I'll be pulling them also.
The first head is definitely damaged, the second one, I believe was leaking past the head gasket. It was so easy to loosen the head bolts on this one, and I believe the same might hold true for the other two.
According to Merc the head must be tightened at 200Nm plus an additional 90° turn.
That is really heavy stuff. I still might have to buy another toque wrench too.
That is what you get from doing the job cheaply as the previous owner did.

The truck with the diesel in oil saga was delivered to bosch service today. I drained about 15l of very diluted oil from it and replaced it with new oil. That oil was really thinned out. And you can actually smell the diesel in it.
Just hope it's not going to cost a fortune, because this is really a great truck. Even guys from Merc admitted that the 1729 was one of the most reliable trucks Merc has ever built.

 

[arrie]

Bosch service quoted R15000 to fix the diesel pump. Apparently some element or filament or something is kaput inside the pump. They then also replace all the injectors.
Ouch, that's expensive, the truck will be standing until I have money to fix it myself.
I just need to get info on how the timing is done when the pump is removed.

 

[arrie]

I have now found the exact tools manufacturer for the job.

If someone ever want a heavy duty tool, have a look at Brito.
They make a 1/2" drive socket, but having a double thick wall, that's right twice as thick as a gedore for example.
It works a charm on those heads.

I have already destroyed a gedore 17mm bi-hex socket, and still did not have the third and fourth head loose, until I boroughed the Brito socket from someone.
Now, I'll be buying one for myself.

 

[Mickster]

Does this mean you are not going to emigrate to Canada now?