Some Advice please on older boards

[NoobyMarty]

I won some older pic stuff on ebay, its not here so not 100% sure whats in it.
However I do know it has a ICD3 and a pickit 3 and 4, there is also a very old pic8 explorer board. I downloaded MPLABX and XC8 (no code experience), but looking at the compatibility chart I dont think the ICD3 or the boards are going to work with the latest IDE/Compiler.

Any advice on whether I should download a older version (if so which one??) OR.........suffer the loss and upgrade.
Sorry for NOOB questions, im reading the compiler docs etc but kinda need pointing in the right direction for messing with older stuff.

Many Thanks
Marty

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

Just use the PICKit 4 and ignore the ICD3.

 

[NoobyMarty]

Thank You Nigel Goodwin, do you think the modern xc8 compiler will work on older pic18f chips?
Sorry I cant be specific yet but they havnt arrived.
I appreciate the help.

 

[tumbleweed]

XC8 will work with the older 18F chips, but if you're using MPLABX support for the older parts and tools tends to get dropped in some of the features (ie no MCC or Melody code generators, no ICD3/PK3 for newer parts, etc).

For older stuff I still prefer using the old MPLAB 8.92 (https://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/MPLAB_IDE_8_92.zip). Just be aware that if you swap between MPLAB and MPLABX you must be sure to download new firmware to the tools each time you swap.

Also, I'm not sure the old MPLAB will support newer versions of XC8... you might need an older version 1.xx of the compiler too (never tried it).

 

[NoobyMarty]

Thank You Tumbleweed, I will download just incase kind of thing .
I have zero experience of microcontrollers but wanted to see if a old dog could learn a new trick!
reading the forum earlier I discovered ive so far made every NOOB mistake in the Book! ah well im having fun at least lol.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

Thank You Nigel Goodwin, do you think the modern xc8 compiler will work on older pic18f chips?
Sorry I cant be specific yet but they havnt arrived.
I appreciate the help.

As far as I know they should, but the advantage of newer PIC's is their much better specifications and peripherals - my 28 pin 'go to 18F PIC' if the 18F27K42 which has pretty high specs. and is cheap.

For a comparison, just today I've been to the Centre for Computing History at Cambridge, and I was much impressed by the 'megaprocessor', which my wife played Tetris on - but it's a very poor relation to even a low spec. PIC

Megaprocessor

The Megaprocessor is a micro-processor built large. Very large. See and watch every detail of how computers work. And 10,000 LEDs.

www.megaprocessor.com

 

[NoobyMarty]

To be honest it was an impulse buy and I paid over the top.......as soon as my frustration reaches scream level I will reluctantly open my wallet and part with some hard earned . But untill I have to DAMN IT! lmao

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

To be honest it was an impulse buy and I paid over the top.......as soon as my frustration reaches scream level I will reluctantly open my wallet and part with some hard earned . But untill I have to DAMN IT! lmao

Where I used to work (engineer at a TV shop) a customer came in one day and asked if I'd like a load of free 'PIC stuff', and an old scope.

The 'price' was right, so I took the lot

He'd recently taken over an industrial unit, and the previous user had been producing pirate satellite TV cards - among the 'stuff' were 220+ 40 pin OTP PIC's brand new in tubes (which I offered for free on here, and eventually gave them to one of the members).

The scope was an old valve storage scope, quite a high end model in its day, and I gave that to a friend who has the largest collection of stuff you're ever likely to see He actually got in touch with the manufacturer, and donated it to them for free, as it was a model they didn't have in their museum.

Other stuff was PCB's for the pirate cards, and a PIC 'copier' - you put a blank PIC in one socket, and the master PIC in the other, and pressed GO - it then copied the (unprotected) master PIC to the blank one. Needless to say, it was powered by another PIC.

 

[NoobyMarty]

Yeah................I have avoided mentioning the OLD SCOPE that is coming in the bundle, im trying not to think about it costing the same as a modern scope!!.

My interest is actually a project I have wanted to do for a very long time, I could/should do it with something like a R PI or even a Arduino.....I dont seem to take the easy option!
I am building a very large tropical rainforest vivarium, its designed to be a complete mini eco system, similar to the youtube channel Ants Canada.
Only mine is different in many respects as my focus is not ants.

I will post my blink leds pic when the stuff arrives tomorrow (if I get a led to blink in a day!) .

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

Yeah................I have avoided mentioning the OLD SCOPE that is coming in the bundle, im trying not to think about it costing the same as a modern scope!!.

Depends what you mean by 'old', as long as it's a working transistorised scope, that's perfectly fine - you don't 'need' a modern digital scope.

My interest is actually a project I have wanted to do for a very long time, I could/should do it with something like a R PI or even a Arduino.....I dont seem to take the easy option!

Well an original Arduino is only a development board using a mid-range AVR, it's only advantage over a PIC is that it has a bootloader ready programmed, so you don't need a programmer. You can just as easily stick a bootloader in a PIC, and program that without a programmer - except you need a programmer to get the bootloader inside the PIC in the first place.

But the same applies to AVR's as well, they don't come with a bootloader, someone has to program it in there in the first place.

A Raspberry PI is a completely different beast, it's a complete computer rather than a micro-controller.

 

[NoobyMarty]

First Im going to do the BLINKING LED!!

Then we can discuss my overengineered, stupidly complicated, irrational plan for what is effectively......a simple environmental controller I can get off the shelf for £20.
But NO, I want to 'add a couple of things' sometimes than inner tinkerer cant be ignored.
The biology side is my profession, the controller side is the my inner child wanting the satisfaction of building something to there exact wishes, stepping back, looking at a rats nest of wires and thinking....YEAH BABY IT WORKS!!

The scope is a HP54610B 2 chan 500Mghz, that I paid WAY over the top for!! BUT I cant complain, nobody makes rational ebay buying decisions on a friday night 7 pints in!! especially true when you have one click buying installed .

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

First Im going to do the BLINKING LED!!

To be honest, many PIC projects are simply variations on blinking LED's

Then we can discuss my overengineered, stupidly complicated, irrational plan for what is effectively......a simple environmental controller I can get off the shelf for £20.
But NO, I want to 'add a couple of things' sometimes than inner tinkerer cant be ignored.

I fully agree, I often build my own simply because you can't buy exactly what you want.

The biology side is my profession, the controller side is the my inner child wanting the satisfaction of building something to there exact wishes, stepping back, looking at a rats nest of wires and thinking....YEAH BABY IT WORKS!!

The scope is a HP54610B 2 chan 500Mghz, that I paid WAY over the top for!! BUT I cant complain, nobody makes rational ebay buying decisions on a friday night 7 pints in!! especially true when you have one click buying installed .

Well there's one on Ebay for $1250

 

[NoobyMarty]

Well it came today.....So far what a God Awful experience!! Im aware you will need more information than I can provide at the moment but let me give you an idea of what I have to play with and the problems so far.

a microchip 44 pin demo board with a 18F45K20 chip on it, the board dosnt looked touched and no trace of being messed with.
Explorer 8 board looks very old but good condition, a explorer 16 board.......we are not going there yet!

2x ICD3, only one seems to light up or do anything but play dead, a pk3 that has all lights including the red one on all the time (presume this isnt good).

a PK4..

Ive downloaded lates MPLABX IDE and XC8 and also installed the old mplab.

Whats odd is the driver switcher hasnt detected both MPLABX and MPLAB old ver are both installed so hasnt and refuses point blank to download the switcher.

Tried plugging the different ICD's etc in and connecting via new MPLABX.....absolutely nothing!!

Dosnt look like the pk4 will work with the old mplab and the ICD3 wont work with the new one!!
Only thing ive been able to do is connect the 44pin demo board to new ver of the separate Programming app thing (IPE?), it connects to the board but wont read or right or verify the chip.

I have that really horrible feeling im going to have to spend money and get more modern boards/chips and or new programmers! Not what I really want to do.
Just a FYI im running windows 11 on a laptop, any ideas/suggestions.

Did a bit of google but TBH got lost in all the technical stuff! So i suppose first question is...what should my next steps be to try and trouble shoot this?
Im not being lazy, Im off work today and been trying to sort this since 8:30 this morning!! all on a single coffee and 1 pee! lol

NOT EVEN managed to try out my expensive overpriced oscilloscope yet! (actually although I paid a lot for it I do like the retro look and feel.

ANY pointers very much appreciated, even if its it just a point to a rabbit hole to jump down!

Regards
Marty

 

[NoobyMarty]

I'm going to go for a walk and have a think!! No point trying to make progress when your feeling frustrated

 

[NoobyMarty]

Well sort of some progress....
So far I can only get a ICD3 to be recognised, I cant actually get it to do a thing lol!
I want to try and stick to mplabx if I can (if my devices are supported), which leads me to a question.

Does anyone know if earlier versions of mplabx supported pk3's and icd3? if so does anybody have an idea of the best version to use?

Im kind of resigned to having to upgrade my boards and chips but would like to play with what I have on hand if possible.

Marty

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

Use the latest version of MPLABX and the PK4, job done. I've never used an ICD3 so can't comment, but the PK3 doesn't support many modern PIC's.

 

[NoobyMarty]

Use the latest version of MPLABX and the PK4, job done. I've never used an ICD3 so can't comment, but the PK3 doesn't support many modern PIC's.

I cant get the pk4 to work in mplabx [Shrugs].
I note my above remark gives zero useful information!
I'm going to leave it tonight, see if a new day and some sleep (plus reading) helps .
The other reason i'm leaving it tonight is I intend to install mplab then mplabx on my computer, see if the drive switcher recognises I have both on the system, main reason for this is the laptop is works....IF i'm gonna get brutal and hands on I would rather do it on my own hardware .

Lets really complicate matters and stick it in a VM windows machine...(only kidding...kinda)

Thanks again
Marty

 

[NoobyMarty]

I did a reply and it didnt post! Out of all the programmers its actually the pk4 thats giving me trouble!!

Even the pk3 is now recognised in the IDE, I will try external power on the boards and see what happens when I get home. Steep learning curve but I wanted a challenge .
Ive moved everything onto my PC, the laptop is a works one and im more hesitant doing things to it than my pc. Thanks for all the help, fingers crossed and that led will bloody blink tonight!!

Regards
Marty

 

[tumbleweed]

Make sure that the firmware inside the PK4 matches the version of MPLABX you're using...
I've had PK4's right out of the box that were not "updated" and while they can appear to work, strange things can occur.

Whenever you swap MPLABX versions make sure the tool firmware gets updated.
You may have to force this to happen... each version of MPLABX has its own set of quirks when it comes to using the USB tools. It can be a very frustrating experience (to say the least!).

 

[rjenkinsgb]

Out of all the programmers its actually the pk4 thats giving me trouble!!

Try different USB cables if you have any erratic problems - most cheap ones have extremely thin cores and the voltage drop is too great for devices that have significant power consumption like scopes, external hard drives, logic analysers, audio interfaces & programmers.

Typically they start to boot up and get recognised, but as soon as the driver starts to enable the hardware or install firmware, the device resets as the current has gone up and the voltage dropped too low.

If the device firmware is messed up, there are instructions to reload it in section 7.3.3 of the user guide.

MPLAB® PICkit™ 4 In-Circuit Debugger User's Guide

onlinedocs.microchip.com