How To Ask Questions The Smart Way

[HarveyH42]

hi Harvey,
Like you I do try to write in English with reasonable grammer and I do get fed up with posters using 'textspeak'.

What I am objecting too, is regarding 'scrooges' constant belittling of members who are doing their best
to put across a technical point in a second language.

If you look back thru his posts he is constantly making sarcastic remarks about posts from members in non English speaking countries, not to mention his obession about younger members.

It must be very difficult for non English students to always get the correct spelling or technical term.

I agree he has been a member for some time, but IMHO that dosn't give him the right, to go out of his way to offend other members

Roff has posted a very useful link that gives guide lines to posters.

Once again 'scrooge' has used this post, as an opportunity to express his narrow minded views.

Regards

I still don't see it as racist or be antagonistic. I see as giving some incentive to try harder, to learn to better express yourself, and to realize that if you want other people to help, you need to put in some effort of your own. Audioguru's posts might come off as a little harsh, most of us occasionally post similar content, just not as consistently. It's a hard lesson to learn, but it needs to be taught.

When I visit a site, that's not in English. I don't ask them to translate everything to English for me. I deal with it the best I can. I have a German-English dictionary, there is Google-translate, and a few other tools available the allow me to get by. Yes, it's difficult, but I'm the one interested in the information, and I feel fortunate that it's been made available.

We have a lot of people from other countries who do fine with English, if you don't pick at it. They post more then a single line request for help, and include enough detail that we can make some sense out of what they are looking for. There are thousands of sites, in almost any language that teach basic electronics. I don't see any reason why some one new to electronics or the language, should come here and expect us to do all the work for them. Some just need a little push to try a little harder, others are just plain lazy and use to having everything just handed to them. For every harsh post, that may/may not have offended a novice, there are most likely dozens that took the extra effort to avoid a similar response.

So, Audioguru go straight to point, do some work for yourself, or step out. Don't be a slacker all your life. Sometimes the truth can be hurtful, but I strongly believe this is the message he's trying to get across. It's something very much lacking in the world today.

Take Krumlink, a year ago, he was an obnoxious child, banned many times, the red-square king... Now a Moderator? It comes down to stating what is considered acceptable, and what needs more work. Audioguru isn't a lazy man, and doesn't accept it from others. Seems like he expects the same from other people, as expects of himself.

 

[ericgibbs]

Harvey,
Thank you for your considered reply.

I agree 100% the OP/poster should do the BEST he can when compiling a post.

Like you, I would struggle on posting in a foreign language, I may get the technical bits sort of right,
but the grammer and syntax would be something else.

However well 'put together' a post is, its never going to overcome remarks like this.
I don't go on a forum in their country so why are they here?.

Where on earth does 'scrooge' think the forum is.?

IIRC its based in New Zealand and isn't it the 'World Wide Web'

Regards

 

[BeeBop]

...
Believe me, they don't speak good English here
Dean

Dean, since you are a professional writer, I'm going to give you the gears for this one.

They don't speak English well here...

I do agree, though, many English Second Language learners do produce much better language than many first language learners. Many first language learners just lack the ability to communicate clearly, because education is not really valued here, and they fail to pay attention in school.

In Western countries it seems that experience is more valued than education, yet we don't distinguish in terms of intellect. Do we ALL profit the same from a particular experience? In Canada, fraternity seems even more important than experience.

In Canada, we have a national police force. When one of their spokes people appear on the news the language often sounds like that of an uneducated person. They probably got the position of spokes person, because they were a relative of, or friend of someone "higher up" in the force.

In a few years, Chinese may well surpass English, as the language to know.

 

[audioguru]

Hi BeeBop,
I know Hongcouver because I was raised there when it was still Vancouver. I saw the Chinese come by the millions.

I have helped many kids on these forums with their English and with learning electronic circuits, but I like talking to my peers about new things.

One pennyless student in The Phillipines didn't have a chance of getting his degree without my long continuing help. Then he got a good job. His English and standard of living improved immensely.

But I get many PMs from students in the Southern Orient demanding me to do their homework. Instead, they should get together and help each other and go on a forum in their own country talking in their native language about how other students there learned about electronics.

 

[BeeBop]

'morning Audio,

When I got off the plane a couple of years back, I thought it had just made a circle and landed back at Inchon Airport. (South Korea) There were so many Koreans here! Now I know the difference between, and can identify, most Asian languages by sound (although I usually don't have a clue what is being said.) Before, I didn't know the difference and it all sounded so much like silverware hitting the floor. I also thought all chopsticks were the same. They are not.

I think we need a lot more people here, perhaps we would all enjoy the lower taxes from sharing such a large burden between more people. I like the people who come here and mix right in with everyone. I have a hard time with those who come here and live in isolation, never learning the language, never really mixing.

I learn a LOT just from reading your replies, and get most out of them when you are talking to peers. I often laugh at your comments when you are not.

You get many lame PM requests because you really know what you are talking about. I don't get many, but there are a few, and they are annoying.

I don't share the overwhelming positive attitude of some of the younger, well educated Canadians here. Perhaps it is because I'm getting older, and becoming more of a grouch. On the other hand, perhaps it is because I had the opportunity to step away from the forest and look at the big picture. It used to bother me that most people born in Canada would end up serving wealthy foreigners who came here to live. Now ...

 

[audioguru]

I worked in Canada for international companies:
1) Philips of Holland. Car radio engineering then large intercom systems.
2) An American tele-conferencing and video-conferencing manufacturer and service provider.
3) A Japanese Pro-sound manufacturer.

Most of my carreer I was an engineer with a sound systems small company.

 

[picbits]

"Dear Sir,

Please do my homework as I've left it until the last minute and I will fail my grade unless I cheat and get the answers on here (and another gazillion forums with the same question" ..........

 

[HarveyH42]

Harvey,
Thank you for your considered reply.

I agree 100% the OP/poster should do the BEST he can when compiling a post.

Like you, I would struggle on posting in a foreign language, I may get the technical bits sort of right,
but the grammer and syntax would be something else.

However well 'put together' a post is, its never going to overcome remarks like this.
I don't go on a forum in their country so why are they here?.

Where on earth does 'scrooge' think the forum is.?

IIRC its based in New Zealand and isn't it the 'World Wide Web'

Regards

Obviously he doesn't just limit himself to just Canadian based sites, he's on a couple of other electronics forums as well. Not speaking English, isn't an acceptable excuse for not learning it, if you want to participate here. You accuse him of a narrow mind, but you take his comments too narrowly yourself. I don't know anything about Audioguru, except from what I've read in his posts over the years. Most everything he posts, also makes you think a little on your own. He seldom just hands out solutions, he tries to impart a little wisdom as well. Will agree that perhaps he's a little rough on new members, who aren't familiar with his work. We are all different here, and have various ways of expressing our thoughts and opinions. This isn't a school or a business, or a paid service. We are share a hobby, you have to expect a diverse gathering, and not like every single thing you read here. It's not like a customer service, where you get all the answers in a friendly, courteous manner.

Even though Audioguru is a little rough at times, you can't deny that he does help a lot of people, regardless of age or country, even limited language skills. They just need to show some effort of their own. The racist label doesn't really fit. His only 'agenda' seems to be to provoke a little independent learning and self improvement. Not such a bad thing.

NOOBs "No Speeky Zee English"... Obviously speaks some English, just too lazy, or playing for some special attention. At work, all employees are required to be able to function using English, the job application is in English, the interview, and all paperwork. Everyone who makes it through, should be able to handle all job requirements. We've had more then a few try to avoid unpleasant tasks through language limitations.

 

[ericgibbs]

hi Harvey,
I dont have any issue with the technical content he posts, just his attitude towards certain groups of people.

I am sorry to hear that you think I am acting in a narrow minded way, but its been my long believe
this sort of behaviour should always be immediatley challenged.

He says he likes to discuss new technical topics with his peers, if he ever posts a new technical topic,
I would be pleased to join in the discussion.

Once again, thanks for the reponse.

 

[audioguru]

Hi Eric,
You are correct about me hardly ever posting a new topic here.

On two other electronics chat sites I posted many new topics about corrections to the many errors in their projects. I even posted my own projects.

 

[Mikebits]

Gee Roff, I bet at this juncture your thinking... But wait, you missed the point of my post!

 

[ericgibbs]

Gee Roff, I bet at this juncture your thinking... But wait, you missed the point of my post!

hi Mike,
I did read thru it last time it was posted, its a very handy guide.

Where possible I 'try' to follow it, BUT there are so many times its difficult to do so.

 

[Roff]

Gee Roff, I bet at this juncture your thinking... But wait, you missed the point of my post!

Yeah, I just thought the site might make a nice sticky.

 

[Hank Fletcher]

I don't go on a forum in their country so why are they here?
Shouldn't little school kids be in school instead of on our forum?

And from Roff's link:

What we are, unapologetically, is hostile to people who seem to be unwilling to think or to do their own homework before asking questions. People like that are time sinks — they take without giving back, and they waste time we could have spent on another question more interesting and another person more worthy of an answer. We call people like this “losers” (and for historical reasons we sometimes spell it “lusers”).

Seems relevant to me.

 

[Krumlink]

Personally, I do not mind nor care about people from other countries, etc. I only have a problem with it if they:
a) Speak Chijapindspangish on a English speaking forum
b) Cannot at least make an attempt when asking a question or answering a question to answer it in proper grammatical structure (Text Speak)
c) Use a ridiculous amount of improper speech (Text Speak again, no LOLs)

As I see it and I have been tracing this thread and making the connections, I believe that as a forum certain members are becoming increasingly hostile to our foreign friends.

 

[rjvh]

i can understand that by some forum members the anoyance level is trigered by "lusers"

asking questions that is obvious home work for those guys and that is not even is tried to find it out by them self in the first place

in my opinion those people are not on the right place here

but they are also member in this forum and it's a little arrogant to Claim that this forum belongs more to sertain members because of seniority in the nr of posts or the content of posts or how perfect the english is in a post

if rules are broken by certain members than there are moderators who can keep that in control

of course there is always the space for a (ethical) discusion between the members and till certain extend the members do have control over the forum regarding this

in my opinion it's not nececary to be sarcastic towards people, you can express it in a different way or don't

the main reason for the majority of the forum members is (I asume) is to talk about electronics and related things and that is borderless and timeless

if people think that certain topics are of limit because the components are already to old but somewhere else in the world they still have to wait several years for them than is that not a reason to say that another forum is the way to talk about

with signing up to this forum there where no ristrictions on this iseu

you could of course think it but ask yourself than also the question if you still on the right forum yourself

regarding this whole tread i do feel my self closer standing towards Eric gibbs and hank fletcher on opinion

lets talk about electronics in a constructive way so most members learning from it and have fun in it regardless their spelling/gramar ability and their posibility to get their hands on the latest technoligy

Robert-Jan

 

[JimB]

On a related theme, I find it ironic that on a board where posts with significant amounts non-English text have been deleted, we now have an advert in German.
(See the top of this page).

JimB

 

[rjvh]

On a related theme, I find it ironic that on a board where posts with significant amounts non-English text have been deleted, we now have an advert in German.
(See the top of this page).

JimB

You see more than me

because i see only an english one

still than i would understand it as i do speak and read/write german also

it's one of my 4 languages that i try to master till a sertain level

(no sarcastic intentions here)

Robert-Jan

 

[Pommie]

On a related theme, I find it ironic that on a board where posts with significant amounts non-English text have been deleted, we now have an advert in German.
(See the top of this page).

JimB

The adverts are tailored to your location and so I get to see more Australian Ads and I assume you get classed as European.

Mike.

 

[JimB]

You see more than me

because i see only an english one

Dont you just hate it when this sort of thing happens!

I guess the adverts rotate on a time basis.
As I write this there is an English language advert, but when I posted before, there was a German language advert for a PCB manufacturer.

JimB