domestic scale pcb fabricating

[gizmoman]

i want to fabricate pcb(simple and cheap) at home for my projects. will you please help me. please let me know the components, chemicals and the place where i can find them. let the procedure be general applicable to all types of the circuits.

 

[Jack Luminous]

Some detailed tutorials about this:

http://www.qsl.net/ve2emm/pcb/pcb2e.html

**broken link removed**

http://www.tonepad.com/photoessay.asp?photoEssayID=10

http://www.5bears.com/pcb.htm

 

[FusionITR]

As someone who extensively used to make pcbs... trust me its not worth it.

Have a fabrication house do it. They can make it professional quality for very cheap if you dont care about soldermask and silkscreening.

 

[philba]

As someone who extensively used to make pcbs... trust me its not worth it.

Have a fabrication house do it. They can make it professional quality for very cheap if you dont care about soldermask and silkscreening.

I can't agree with this. yes, you can get much better quality and features with a PCB house. However, once you get the process figured out, you can produce a usable PCB in several hours. I have, literally, designed a circuit, made the board, stuffed it and gotten it working in a single day. hard to beat.

that said, you need to understand what the limitations are:
- most people do single sided board only (though DS isn't that hard)
- no plated through holes. not a huge deal if you design with that in mind.
- no solder mask. this is most significant in reflowing surface mount chips
- fairly coarse geometries. 10 mil is about the lower bound on traces though I use 12 mil most of the time.
- chemicals, materials, ...

Still, there is an incredible sense of satisfaction in making a PCB yourself and have it work.

Phil

 

[andy257]

I can't agree with this. yes, you can get much better quality and features with a PCB house. However, once you get the process figured out, you can produce a usable PCB in several hours. I have, literally, designed a circuit, made the board, stuffed it and gotten it working in a single day. hard to beat.

that said, you need to understand what the limitations are:
- most people do single sided board only (though DS isn't that hard)
- no plated through holes. not a huge deal if you design with that in mind.
- no solder mask. this is most significant in reflowing surface mount chips
- fairly coarse geometries. 10 mil is about the lower bound on traces though I use 12 mil most of the time.
- chemicals, materials, ...

Still, there is an incredible sense of satisfaction in making a PCB yourself and have it work.

Phil

I agree with the above. You cant beat a home made pcb.

I dont agree with pcb manufacturing companies being cheaper either. Most do not allow one off orders and require bulk buying.

The initial cost of the equipment and materials is the only down side of DIY pcb.

Andy

 

[FusionITR]

https://www.expresspcb.com/

$59 Shipped for 3 PCBs 3.8x2.5 inch board, double sided.

Thats a pretty damn good deal even for hobbyist. I've made countless PCBs at home with photoresist boards (no iron on garbage), and the quality you get out of it and the time spent drilling 50-60 holes (if you make a board with IC and d-sub or whatever kind of ports) is just not worth it.

Unless you plan to make extremely simple circuits, you will get tired of it very quickly.

 

[HarveyH42]

$59 for 3 boards? Wow, I'm just a few boards away from breaking even on what I invested, and haven' really made much of a dent in the materials...

I went with the toner transfer approach. Yeah, using the Iron isn't good, but a small laminator and thin PCB works great. All together, probably got about $300 invested. Had to buy a laser printer ($129), copper boards (bulk surplus $5 Lb), paper (10-$14.95, and several glossy photo papers that didn't work well...), eching chemical ($4.95 1/4 dry, makes a quart), laminator (4" surplus $19.99), and drill bits (surplus regrinds, 50-$40.00).

Oh, a drill press/stand is a must. I had one of those universal jobs sitting around since I bought my house, never thought it was complete or worked. It's turned out to be perfect for the job. Only a hassle to pull my hand drill out when I want to us it for other things. Not bad for free though.

I use acetone to remove the toner, wipes right off. I probably didn't do more than 4 or 5 boards a year, but I've done 11 so far in past 4 months (new toy syndrome). It's great eching the board, stuffing it, and seeing it complete and hopefully working in less than a day.

 

[philba]

One thing I hate about making PCBs is drilling holes. The good news is surface mount helps a lot. I can often do a 4-6 IC board and not have more than 20-30 holes - mostly for connectors. with a TH board, it would be upwards of 100 - big improvement.

I'm probably in the minority, but $59 for 3 boards seems like a lot. Probably >5X the cost of the parts I'm going to stuff them with. especially if I'm going to have to rev the board anyway. I just want one, cheap. Instead of 1 design, I'd panelize 5-10 different designs and get it done for 100-120. If a couple of people go together, it can be pretty inexpensive.

If you are willing to wait a while for your board, sparkfun.com runs batchpcb.com. very cheap prices for 1 PCB.

Phil

 

[Jack Luminous]

I'm sure you can get nicer quality from a professional place, but It is still good to know how to do it.
Maybe for example, you want to have a place make a large quantity of one design for you. I would like to make one board myself just to test the design before sending it off to the manufacturer.

If I were making a quantity of boards for a product to sell, I would definitely have a pro make them. But for the occasional one-off PCB, I like having the power to complete my own board in a couple of hours. It may not actually be cheaper if you figure your labor time as money, but it is convenient.

I can see getting sick of making them if you need to do it a lot, but when you only need to make one once in a while, it's not that much of a drag. It's actually very satisfying.

 

[Jack Luminous]

The way I've been doing it is to go somewhere that has copying machines and make a couple ten cent copies of the layout that I want to make into a board. I use the glossiest paper they have.

Next I cut the piece of copper clad board roughly to size and clean it very thoroughly. I use a 3M white scouring pad and "Barkeeper's Friend," which is an abrasive powdered cleaner similar to Zud or Ajax. It's important to get the board really clean, so I scour and rinse several times. I finish the cleaning by wiping the board with isopropyl alcohol. Do not touch your fingers to the copper surface after it is cleaned.

Iron the paper to the board - I won't go into detail about that since it's probably well covered in the tutorials - but thicker paper will need more pressure and heating time to achieve a good transfer.

Once it looks like the transfer is good I soak the board in water for a while and then peel the paper off. Random segments of paper that remain usually come right off after a little scrubbing with a toothbrush.

You still want to avoid touching the copper surface. Touch up any sections that didn't transfer well with an etch resist pen. If you will be etching with Ferric Chloride you can use a "Sharpie" type permanent marker. But if you use Ammonium Persulphate, it can eat through that ink. For etching with AP I use a paint pen from a craft store for touching up the resist. I think a "Wite Out" pen works also - but I haven't actually tried one.

If you use Ammonium Persulphate (like I do), it will definitely need to be heated up. I boil some water and dump it into a plastic basin. Then I mix up the AP (using some of the hot water) in either a thick plastic freezer bag with a tight zippered seal, or in a plastic tupperware container. Stick the copper board inside and submerge the bag or container in the tub of boiling water.
Agitate the bag/container for best results. I wear light-medium duty insulated, rubber gloves which enable me to comfortably stick my hand in the hot water so I can shake the bag/container.

Once etching is complete, rinse board with water.
Drill component holes. You'll need a small Dremel type of rotary tool or drill press. I've actually had great luck (so far) drilling freehand with a cheap little hand drill/rotary tool I ordered from a surplus place. I think one or two of those tutorials have some info about what bits to use.

Trim board to exact size you want and clean off etch resist. I found that a bit of air freshener with a high concentration of citrus oil - like this stuff: **broken link removed** on a rag works like a charm and the resist wipes right off. Smells better than acetone too!
For good measure, I then wipe the board with alcohol in case the citrus stuff leaves a residue behind.

Don't know where you live, but in the U.S., one place you can get supplies is http://www.elexp.com (Electronix Express).
===================================
Here's a quote from an article found at http://www.geofex.com that contains some info you should know:

!PLEASE NOTE: Developing and etching PCBs is a process that involves chemicals that can burn your skin, have hazardous neurotoxic fumes, can be absorbed into your bloodstream, and CANNOT be disposed of by dumping into ordinary sanitary drains. It should NEVER be done without powered ventilation or in an area accessible by children or pets. Of lesser but significant note is that it is common for these materials to wreak havoc on flooring, furniture, and especially on clothing. (Splash some etchant on your clothes and you might not notice until after you wash them that you suddenly have what looks like a shotgun blast through your jeans.) In short: don't fool with it unless you have proper facilities to do it right, and follow ALL safety cautions mentioned on the materials. You may well be better off to farm out the process to a commercial board maker; some are listed in this list of PCB Fabricators. New . . . you might also want to check with PCB-Quote Free multiple quotes for PCB Layout, Fabrication, Assembly. The E.E. Shop can also help you fabricate a printed circuit board: click here for details on what we need and where to get the photonegatives made.

 

[DirtyLude]

I'm probably in the minority, but $59 for 3 boards seems like a lot.

You are certainly not in the minority. I'm not certain what Fusion_ITR is smoking, but I can make up a board in an hour at home for no more cost than bare copper board and a sheet of photo paper. If it's not right, which sometimes it's not, no matter how carful you are with the design, I'll just make up another one. The board can be whatever size/shape I want and I don't need to wait for any shipping.

Certainly if I'm going to distribute something I'll get a board made up, but for hobby work, if I had to pay $58.00 every time I wanted to see a schematic become a reality, I'd probably give this hobby up.

This is basicly the method I use:
http://www.eegeek.net/electronics/tutorials/tonertransferpcbtutorial.htm

...and this is what the boards look like:
**broken link removed**
**broken link removed**
**broken link removed**

This one has more thru holes than usual, because it will be going to a board house eventually:
**broken link removed**

I can also make up little test boards on the fly, to test SMD devices on perfboard, like this:
**broken link removed**

A laser printer is a requirement, though. It also helps that I have a cheapo drill press for holes.

EDIT: If you want more info and other ideas, you can try out the YahooGroups ML called HomeBrew PCBs. Those guys are serious over there though, with home made milling machines and stuff.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/

 

[andy257]

You are certainly not in the minority. I'm not certain what Fusion_ITR is smoking, but I can make up a board in an hour at home for no more cost than bare copper board and a sheet of photo paper. If it's not right, which sometimes it's not, no matter how carful you are with the design, I'll just make up another one. The board can be whatever size/shape I want and I don't need to wait for any shipping.

Certainly if I'm going to distribute something I'll get a board made up, but for hobby work, if I had to pay $58.00 every time I wanted to see a schematic become a reality, I'd probably give this hobby up.

This is basicly the method I use:
http://www.eegeek.net/electronics/tutorials/tonertransferpcbtutorial.htm

...and this is what the boards look like:
**broken link removed**
**broken link removed**
**broken link removed**

This one has more thru holes than usual, because it will be going to a board house eventually:
**broken link removed**

I can also make up little test boards on the fly, to test SMD devices on perfboard, like this:
**broken link removed**

A laser printer is a requirement, though. It also helps that I have a cheapo drill press for holes.

EDIT: If you want more info and other ideas, you can try out the YahooGroups ML called HomeBrew PCBs. Those guys are serious over there though, with home made milling machines and stuff.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/

YES! i totally agree, What drugs are you people on when they say this stuff.

Like i said in an earlier post, the initial cost is the only problem for the equipment and consumables. After that you are all set and will save $$$$ more in the long run.

Oh and of course you would get it professionally made if your going to sell it, DURRRR THAT IS OBVIOUS!!!!! For a hobby its the best way to make your own.

You can keep paying your $50 a time and i will stick to my DIY pcb.


Andy

 

[Jack Luminous]

Equipment costs aren't even that much. If you don't have a laser printer (yeah, I know they're cheap - just haven't gotten around to getting one) most any common photo copier will do the trick. Only costs about ten cents a copy at most places.
A $15.00 rotary tool, steel bits, and a steady hand work fine for drilling.

Oh and of course you would get it professionally made if your going to sell it, DURRRR THAT IS OBVIOUS!!!!!

Excuse me for stating the obvious. I was just illustrating a point. The threadstarter appears to have zero knowledge of the process so maybe everything isn't as obvious to him as it is to you. Also, I've seen some people make their own boards for products they sell. I'm talking 20-50 units at a time, not thousands here. ...If I needed 25 pieces of the same board made I'd go to a manufacturer. In that quantity it's not such an obvious choice. I think you could reasonably go either way with it.

 

[chemelec]

Well I don't do Double Sided boards very often and I can't do plate through holes. But I Can etch and drill One Square Foot of Copper at a Cost of LESS than $5.00, Including the Raw Circuit Board.

No Waiting, Set up or Deliver Charges.

Mind you, I was lucky to by 2000 sq Ft of Raw Board at $1.00 a sq. ft.
But Even at Full Price it is a Lot Cheaper and convenient to make your own boards.

If you are a Bit Inventive, the Etching Setup can also be fairly reasonable.

 

[gizmoman]

thanks very much to all. i really got a nice chunk of information to get started.
the only thing i should do now is find the stuff and get started.

 

[mramos1]

gizmoman, Jack Luminous first message (first reply to this) has all the info you need. I do it that 5bears way, and as long as you iron the paper on good to clean copper, you will get a perfect board everytime. FYI: I use Staples Picture paper ($8 for 30 sheets) and Ferric Chloride. Though I might look into the muratic acid (sp) and hydrogen peroxide (1:2 mix) and see if it really speeds it up (sounds cheap enough).

Two big pains, soaking to get the paper off, but it will come off, and waiting on the copper to come off. hehehehe.. Good luck, but 5bears.com works GREAT!