Why don't people listen anymore...selective hearing maybe?

[Winterstone]

Today the following inquiry - to open a thread - was placed in another forum:

Hi all.
could anyone send me the open loop simulink model as well?
thanks.

Any comments?
W.

 

[throbscottle]

I can't resist this - reading the first post made me think, I deal with this all the time. I'm a market researcher, and every day I ask people questions, and show them the questions on a screen at the same time I'm asking. Admittedly occasionally the questions are worded in an idiotic way (like in double negatives), but still, many people just don't hear or see the perfectly plain straightforward question that's being asked, and tell you what they think you want to hear even if it makes no sense as an answer to what they've been asked. Grrrr....

 

[Winterstone]

Hi Sceadwian, I have sent you a PM.
W.

 

[Sceadwian]

Just food for thought, 50 years ago the population was about 3 billion people.
When I was born 35 years ago it was about 5 billion.
Today it is 7 billion.

20 years ago the first Internet service providers were just emerging into the mainstream until the explosion started in 1995

In the last 50 years alone that's a more than 2 for 1 increase in population, and that doesn't take into account the advent of the Internet that took the entire world from a communications, from isolated communities to a single global social community. Today there are approximately 2 billion Internet users, and when you combine that with a conservative value to Dunbars number of 100 it means that, the global communication network outside of xenophobic groups or the increasingly rare physically isolated communities means that we are a single social species now, there are no more tribes, the lines are still there but socially there are no longer any boundaries to communication between any two people on this planet outside of their choice NOT to communicate. This is a truly powerful driving factor of social evolution.

Social dynamics have changed drastically, even significantly in less developed countries, but there are virtually no isolated social groups left on the planet, they're all merging into one.

What makes this incredibly hard to deal with or study is Dunbar's number, because there are no longer small groups of people closely associated with one another, everyone has the ability to connect with anyone and social dynamics are no longer physically constrained, due to the increase number of people that we can communicate with the depth of that communication necessarily has to decrease and it pervades virtually everything, leaving the great social masses in a sort of frothing mega sea of information and connectivity and no way to filter through it all in a meaningful way.

Suffice to say the world it is a changing! The young are simply growing up in a world that couldn't even have been fathomed just a handful of years ago, from a social standpoint to older individuals the young are alien, this has always been the case, but with the population/social pressures in the last 20 years it is occurring at rate so high that the human mind simply can't cope.

The social landscape of this planet will be in upheaval for years to come, even if the world somehow manages to blow up and leave it in ruins, the young and those that grew up with it will ALWAYS remember this increased level of communication and no one will ever be satisfied with being closed remote groups again, it's to far too much advantage that we all interact with each other, even if it's hard to deal with.

The human race is just going through social growing pains.

 

[tvtech]

Just food for thought, 50 years ago the population was about 3 billion people.
When I was born 35 years ago it was about 5 billion.
Today it is 7 billion.

20 years ago the first Internet service providers were just emerging into the mainstream until the explosion started in 1995

In the last 50 years alone that's a more than 2 for 1 increase in population, and that doesn't take into account the advent of the Internet that took the entire world from a communications, from isolated communities to a single global social community. Today there are approximately 2 billion Internet users, and when you combine that with a conservative value to Dunbars number of 100 it means that, the global communication network outside of xenophobic groups or the increasingly rare physically isolated communities means that we are a single social species now, there are no more tribes, the lines are still there but socially there are no longer any boundaries to communication between any two people on this planet outside of their choice NOT to communicate. This is a truly powerful driving factor of social evolution.

Social dynamics have changed drastically, even significantly in less developed countries, but there are virtually no isolated social groups left on the planet, they're all merging into one.

What makes this incredibly hard to deal with or study is Dunbar's number, because there are no longer small groups of people closely associated with one another, everyone has the ability to connect with anyone and social dynamics are no longer physically constrained, due to the increase number of people that we can communicate with the depth of that communication necessarily has to decrease and it pervades virtually everything, leaving the great social masses in a sort of frothing mega sea of information and connectivity and no way to filter through it all in a meaningful way.

Suffice to say the world it is a changing! The young are simply growing up in a world that couldn't even have been fathomed just a handful of years ago, from a social standpoint to older individuals the young are alien, this has always been the case, but with the population/social pressures in the last 20 years it is occurring at rate so high that the human mind simply can't cope.

The social landscape of this planet will be in upheaval for years to come, even if the world somehow manages to blow up and leave it in ruins, the young and those that grew up with it will ALWAYS remember this increased level of communication and no one will ever be satisfied with being closed remote groups again, it's to far too much advantage that we all interact with each other, even if it's hard to deal with.

The human race is just going through social growing pains.

Deep thinking Scead.

Lot's to take in and think about here.

Cheers,
tvtech

 

[Mikebits]

Just food for thought.

It must be all that thought food causing me to gain weight.

 

[Boncuk]

We haven't had the .......

"I had a brilliant idea - if I attach this motor to a generator then wire the generator to the motor .........."

post for a long time

Just give the motor an initial push to rotate. The motor will drive the generator which in turn produces the necessary power to drive the motor!

I'ts all that easy!

I call it the birth of a perpetuum mobile! (Done a thousand times already. )

Boncuk

 

[Boncuk]

It must be all that thought food causing me to gain weight.

Hi Mike,

you're welcome to pass me over 15kg of your overweight.

My "combat weight" was 62kg when I served in the GAF (German Air Force). It has been steady for three years at 45kg till now.
(Skin, bones and guts)

Cheers

Hans

 

[DJ.]

Hello all you guys,

I have seen all your conversation, but I disagree with the point that what happens to youngstars.
As the matter of fact there must be a time, that you would have also be youngstar or teen, and you also must have ask some or other some kind of stupid question, that is what has made you experienced.

I know that you all guys are seniors and I respect all of you for that. But sir, youngstars are not knowing the things that is why they are asking such question, if they would have aware then would not have asked that question.

 

[Ian Rogers]

Hello all you guys,

I have seen all your conversation, but I disagree with the point that what happens to youngstars.
As the matter of fact there must be a time, that you would have also be youngstar or teen, and you also must have ask some or other some kind of stupid question, that is what has made you experienced.

I know that you all guys are seniors and I respect all of you for that. But sir, youngstars are not knowing the things that is why they are asking such question, if they would have aware then would not have asked that question.

Correct!! But this is the members lounge ( kinda like a staff room ) Us old guy's can have a whinge if we want to....

 

[tvtech]

Correct!! But this is the members lounge ( kinda like a staff room ) Us old guy's can have a whinge if we want to....

And that definitely deserves a solid rep. Thanks Ian.

@ DJ... Us older guys are not moaning...but you missed the point. You youngsters once again are not listening......
By all means ask questions...but listen. Or hear or whatever. And write all down if necessary....

In other words, understand the help you are given.

It really is not that difficult or is it???

Regards,
Your Uncle

 

[tvtech]

Deleted..posted twice.

 

[DJ.]

@Seniors : with all due respect to you guys and sorry for interfering the staff room(members lounge),
but sir still you guys whinging or criticizing or moaning to much to youngstars....

May be in future one of these youngstars only is answering the max. post reply by learning from here from you guys only...

Both Tvtech and Ian sir, members(youngstars) are respecting you that is why they are asking you!!!(May be that questions are stupid or silly)

 

[Boncuk]

Hi DJ.,

if you follow a thread from the first to the latest post you'll sometimes experience persistent posts from the thread creator, trying to get his "truth" acknowledged by forum members.

It takes as much work to google a certain technical detail as waiting for an appropriate answer in the forum.

Today's youngsters learn faster how to copy and paste than they learn to calculate percentage.

That way they steal time from forum members who could use that time to assist in real problems, like helping to calculate parts values for a certain goal.

A transformer can't convert 5VDC to 220VDC.

Period.

If the problem is turned around (convert 220VDC to 5VDC) in a reply post it won't work either.

A personal experience from my electronic shop I ran in Germany:

A young man entered the shop and wanted to buy a PCB. I asked: "What PCB, I mean what is the purpose of your PCB?" He replied: "Just everything!"

That's what is being discussed at the members lounge.

Boncuk

 

[KJ6EAD]

The key to getting people to listen is telling them what they want to hear. We should have a new forum category called "Electronic Utopia" where all project ideas are celebrated as eminently practical and clever, where no math is allowed and no one ever says read this or that or take a class. Answers would be freely given and never be disputed because they're "all good". The laws of physics would not be allowed to intrude and everything would be powered by overunity flower power modules.

View attachment 65744

 

[Boncuk]

The key to getting people to listen is telling them what they want to hear. We should have a new forum category called "Electronic Utopia" where all project ideas are celebrated as eminently practical and clever, where no math is allowed and no one ever says read this or that or take a class. Answers would be freely given and never be disputed because they're "all good". The laws of physics would not be allowed to intrude and everything would be powered by overunity flower power modules.

View attachment 65744

Right on!

2 + 2 equals estimated 5!


A great Hurray on estimations which will bring science and evolution forward!

I wonder why people are working hard at problems to make navigation easier and more precise for air traffic.

Pilot to Nav: "Where are we?" Nav to pilot after taking a glance out of the bulleye (window): "Over the Ocean." Pilot: "Which Ocean, Pacific or Atlantic Ocean?" Nav: "Sir, do you expect me to do pinpoint navigation?"

Boncuk

 

[tvtech]

Hi Guys

My thread and all. Thanks for the input from everyone that contributed to this discussion. Still love you all

Electronics is a strange Art......

1. Either the person asking questions is REALLY interested in learning all about it and understanding what they have been advised to do. And then go back and follow the advise to the letter...always with success. And then want to learn more. And become more interested and more knowledgeable as they gain more insight. These are the people I love dealing with. And am prepared to help to the hilt. My time is wisely spent with them.

2. Or the quick fix poster, who knows absolutely nothing about what he/she is trying to fix. Reliable advise is given by members.....and then they start arguing or disagreeing with the advise given because it is not what they want to hear. These people I hate dealing with.

There are none so stupid as those who will not understand, because they feel they don't need to. In spite of all good intentions from those that do.

So, finally, all youngsters/people/learners/potential repair people etc,......this great Forum will always try and answer your questions to the best of the collective community knowledge.

Thing is, you must listen carefully when advise is given. Simple hey

Cheers,
tvtech

 

[Sceadwian]

tvtech, I think you may have said it pretty well there in your first statement.

Electronics can be an art. But the physics behind it is driven by science and it's limits are only bound by our methods of implementation and theory. It's the perfect storm of creativity, technical, and practical methods; all rolled up into one big snowball, and everyone's fighting!

Electronics can be like a religion to some though, some so set in their ways as they can't see anyone else as being right even if what they do works.

It's an art in that the effect may be pointless to some and perfect to others, and everyone has an opinion.

It's like politics (in the case of things like standards both physical and software) where everyone is fighting to get their specific set of methods used over other groups because they want the control, and that's also a capitalistic standpoint as because those with the power can charge the most for their product.

It's everything to everyone, although not in all, in many situations no one is right and no one is wrong, but many will fight to death to show their side, and someone coming into electronics fresh is going to get hit with more questions to their question than they can answer.

As for what started this whole avalanche of posts, lets go back to my core statement (in post #24) that this kind of result is a problem with social pressures and communication. Can you even fathom the amount of information that is available to a kid now days? The sheer bulk of it is mind numbing.

Almost the entire sum knowledge of human experience that can be described by those now living exists in a digital form that is a few key words away from being presented on the screen.. Can you imagine the pressure someone growing up now must be under mentally to cope with this pure glut of information; I think seriously that this is the key to many of the posts on this forum, and many others; their minds seize up under the pressure of processing all the information and they cry out to anyone they perceive in the immediate environment as being an expert to make sense of it all.

When they don't get the answer they think they want the get upset because the answer is almost always 'you have to learn this'

The breakdown isn't that they can't listen, it's that there are so many people speaking they have no clue how to truly learn. I personally believe that what schools should be teaching right now is not mathematics, biology, science, philosophy, religion, or any other topic at all. They should be teaching how to LEARN, which is a methodology.

A person must be taught a few simple skills; being, how to ask a question properly, how to pull information both through direct physical experimentation and from digital knowledge bases, basic statistical and ethical methods to properly judge the information they discovered, and the only result should be what question can best be asked next, because in the real world there are no true 'answers'

If they can get THIS much by grade school their mental limits might have a chance of being reached.

Modern education is filling young people with useless information that can't be utilized if proper methodology isn't indoctrinated in how to apply it practically.

This however isn't just my opinion, it's directly observable, there is virtually no industry position that will higher someone fresh out of college, they require industry experience. So many students in the US and in many other countries are graduating with paper that isn't worth wiping their rear ends with because they learned nothing practical that can be used in existing industry, and have no drive or ability to produce something truly new to compete because of the sheer weight industry has.

Just as one example, I work at a machine shop that employed a temp to sort parts that had multiple tens of thousands of dollars in college debt, and he couldn't get a job because he had no practical experience in his field just a degree and debt.

School for me failed much earlier on but for much the same reason.

 

[Mikebits]

This however isn't just my opinion, it's directly observable, there is virtually no industry position that will higher someone fresh out of college, they require industry experience.

Not true, the last Fortune 500 electronic company I worked for actively recruited from colleges and university's.

 

[picbits]

Let me tell you a little story.

Many years ago I worked in an electronics shop. We had a saturday member of staff who had worked for the company for many many years. He didn't need to - he had a great job with the council managing the AV / IT for all the local schools. He did it because he loved it and had an interest in electronics. He had a couple of nice cars, a big house and while being rather sarcastic was a lovely bloke.

We had a new trainee manager in. He had absolutely no electronics experience but was a nice enough lad. One day he came up with a theory that if you connected a couple of TV aerial boosters the wrong way and plugged the aerial into the ouput and a RF source into the input from a VCR or camera, you could build your own television transmitter. The saturday guy with all his years of experience fell about laughing and totally put his idea down. Then a fiver was bet on it working or not.

We hooked up a couple of aerial amps together, plugged it into a VCR and the store TV aerial and went on walkabouts with a pocket handheld tv. Shockingly it managed to broadcast a reasonable picture and sound with a very respectable range around the town center !

Sometimes just because it shouldn't work doesn't mean it won't work. Sometimes a fresh and amateur approach to a problem will produce unexpected but welcome results.

99% of the time though they will fall flat on their faces and argue they are right until they are blue in the face