#### Mikebits

##### Well-Known Member
I went to school once.

##### Well-Known Member
I went to school once.
Actually while humorous you are a very good example of someone with very specialized training and schooling to do a job. Your secondary schooling was tailored to say the least.

Ron

#### magvi

##### Member
i tot dis is a free forum.
How is education supposed to make me feel smarter? Besides, every time I learn something new, it pushes some old stuff out of my brain. Remember when I took that home winemaking course, and I forgot how to drive?

#### tvtech

##### Well-Known Member
i tot dis is a free forum.
How is education supposed to make me feel smarter? Besides, every time I learn something new, it pushes some old stuff out of my brain. Remember when I took that home winemaking course, and I forgot how to drive?
lol...never really mean't to post here...but I am bored...

Forgot how to drive..

Cheers
tvtech

#### DerStrom8

##### Super Moderator
i tot dis is a free forum.
How is education supposed to make me feel smarter? Besides, every time I learn something new, it pushes some old stuff out of my brain. Remember when I took that home winemaking course, and I forgot how to drive?
My old high school was founded by a reverend named Asa Burton back in 1819. He is most famous for his quote, "Consider that the mind is capable of an endless growth". When you learn new things, you may push old knowledge back in your mind, but it is never pushed out. It will always be there--the hard part is to set up a way to retrieve it if desired. I understand how you feel, but I hope this quote encourages you to push your boundaries and strive to reach your full potential.

Regards,
Der Strom

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#### atferrari

##### Well-Known Member
Electronics wise.....give them 4 1N4007 diodes and tell them to build a bridge rectifier....fail everytime. Because they don't know what what they are doing..

If the person gets it right...they have a clue. And then I will help further to the best of my ability.

The very basics. So important

Cheers,
TV TECH
I know how to do it with four 1N4007. Problem is if you give me four 1N4001.

#### KeepItSimpleStupid

##### Well-Known Member
A friend once said "School teaches you what to think and not how to think".

#### jpanhalt

##### Well-Known Member
A friend once said "School teaches you what to think and not how to think".
That has not always been the case, particularly at the better institutions. But, I agree our current trend toward indoctrination in schools is a problem.

John

##### Banned
By large and far though what KISS said is true jpanhalt. Regardless of the exceptions the masses aren't being taught critical thinking or practical information, the lessons are geared toward one thing and one thing only and that's passing the state mandated tests. Once out of school without practical undertones all the information evaporates within a year.

#### jpanhalt

##### Well-Known Member
By large and far though what KISS said is true jpanhalt. Regardless of the exceptions...
I think you need to re-read what I wrote, particularly the first sentence.

In the 1950's and 1960's students at the more notable American universities were quite goal oriented and relatively conservative. The universities themselves had both conservatives and liberals on the faculties, as expected. A lot was tolerated, including sit-ins and some pretty distasteful speech. During the ensuing decades, as our universities became more and more dominated by the liberal ethos, such free speech and thought became increasing less. One university with which I am well familiar sanctioned a fraternity because it had a "bling" party. The reason: "bling" used by a white person is racist.

As for indoctrination vs. teaching how to think, indoctrination has even pervaded the sciences. As a student in science (circa 1960's), it was commonplace for us to get problems to solve on an examination that we had never seen before. The problems required us to apply the principles we had learned, even from other subjects that were prerequisites. Today, at least at some schools, it is expected that every problem presented on an examination must have been worked out in class. A student can challenge a question based on the fact that every piece of information needed was not presented in class that semester, even if the information being drawn upon was or should have been taught in a prior semester of the subject. I found that requirement quite alarming during my recent experience volunteer teaching at a local college.

John

#### strantor

##### Active Member
Barely graduated high school. Unmotivated delinquent. Strong resolve to not go to college, for reasons I can't clearly remember.
Scored high on the military aptitude test, hounded constantly by recruiters. They offered me a 12K bonus to be a nuclear electronics tech, I accepted.
Failed out of nuke ET school before it was theoretically possible to do so. First time I ever tried my hardest and still failed at something. Actually, I think it was the first time I ever tried my hardest at anything, period.
Went on to be a Submarine weapons control system guy. Pretty cool gig, but didn't really dig the whole Navy part of it.
Got out of the Navy and went into the oil field as a field service guy and ended up being in their team of international travelling controls guys, making 6 figures installing & commissioning oil field equipment.
Got married and the travel was no longer acceptable so I now work as a maintenance guy in manufacturing plant making about half what I used to.
I'm tired of fixing things that other people designed, all the while thinking how I could have done a better job designing it.
Tired of my engineering projects being relegated to the garage-only realm. I want to be an engineer, and if you haven't been in the job market recently, don't try to tell me that a piece of paper isn't needed. It is.
So now that I'm grown up and less of a dumbass, I'm going to college to get a Bachelors in Electrical Engineering.

I'm taking my very first right now, Intermediate Algebra. I actually tested a lot higher up on the list of remedial maths than I thought I would.
Being 26 in a class 90% full of 13th year highschoolers is weird. I watch how they drag their feet around with no purpose or direction. They are only there because they have to be.
That's me, had I been forced to go at age 18. They have no idea what an opportunity this is, or what kind of sacrifices they will have to make if they decide to go later in life.
I am fortunate to have a very accommodating family and the Post-911 GI Bill; otherwise my aspirations of a degree would much further over the horizon, probably unattainable.

##### Banned
I think you need to re-read what I wrote, particularly the first sentence.

In the 1950's and 1960's students at the more notable American universities were quite goal oriented and relatively conservative.
I'm pretty sure I read it right the first time.

It doesn't matter if it was done that way before if it's not being done that way now, mind you there were something close to 4 billion people less on the earth at that time. The times are changing and the old systems can not possibly apply because there wouldn't be enough teachers to teach the old way and there is no new system that could replace it to produce actual education in a meanigful manner.

Strantor, your observations are quiet valid, however don't judge them based on them, they are not you and growing up and being intelligent and knowing what to do in school and life is far too complicated a topic for this mere forum =)

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#### DerStrom8

##### Super Moderator
Strantor, your observations are quiet valid, however don't judge them based on them, they are not you and growing up and being intelligent and knowing what to do in school and life is far too complicated a topic for this mere forum =)
I don't think he was trying to judge anyone, Scead. I think he was just stating his experience, which is what the OP of this thread originally asked. The rest of you guys have kind of gotten off topic, if you ask me

#### strantor

##### Active Member
now we're in for a 10 round bout between DerStrom and Sceadwin about whether or not it was my intent to judge, which Sceadwin will "win" when DerStom walks away shaking his head.

#### DerStrom8

##### Super Moderator
now we're in for a 10 round bout between DerStrom and Sceadwin about whether or not it was my intent to judge, which Sceadwin will "win" when DerStom walks away shaking his head.
Hahaha, is that your way of saying he's right, or that he won't stop arguing until the other person gives up?

#### KeepItSimpleStupid

##### Well-Known Member
When going to school I made a few rules. When I went to learn, I got bad grades. When I used my rules, I got a 4.0 GPA.

1. A piece of paper by hook or by crook. e.g. Arranged to be a Ghost. Arranged to test out of classes that I wasn't allowed to test out of. Petitioned not to take a class.
2. Guess what was going to on the exam. Use index cards to reenforce those concepts.
3. Knowing more than the level of the class can be detrimental. e.g. Paper conducts electricity. when you contest an answer and then your told, your not supposed to know that yet, you won.

Bottom line: You do what's expected which is get good grades. You do that by troubleshooting the system.
Real life:
Rule 1: The boss is always right
Rule 2: If the boss is wrong, see rule 1.
Rule 3: Kiss A$$(Unfortunately that's the way it is and I don;t like it) Rule 4: it's not what you know, but who you know. #### strantor ##### Active Member Real life: Rule 1: The boss is always right Rule 2: If the boss is wrong, see rule 1. Rule 3: Kiss A$$ (Unfortunately that's the way it is and I don;t like it)
Rule 4: it's not what you know, but who you know.
I feel it should be noted that these rules are good, only if climbing the ladder is your goal. Sure, if you want to climb the ladder and get to the top, you might have to knob some people off and you might have to step on a few faces. But if being the best at what you do is your aspiration then nix all 4 of those rules. Don't take **** from anybody, even your boss, especially if he's wrong. Don't challenge him in front of everybody, but don't just "go along" with something you know is wrong. He will learn to defer to your judgement and when you speak he will listen. Don't kiss asss. Don't worry about who you know; if they are important, they will come seek you out in an effort to know you.

But not being at the top isn't most people's goal. So for almost everybody I would say those 4 rules are spot on.