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What would be special power generating techniques that are of special interest to communications and military applications?

gophert

Well-Known Member
Most Helpful Member
how can a water wheel provide enough power to pump out more water than it's using? (I can only assume that they pumped out from a lower level?, and the water they used drained out through a sough).
quite often, water was pumped but water was not the power source - people, oxen, horses or mules were...

1599157425000.jpeg
 

Nigel Goodwin

Super Moderator
Most Helpful Member
quite often, water was pumped but water was not the power source - people, oxen, horses or mules were...

View attachment 126815
But in the cases I mentioned, it was water powered.


There's also a 'strange' water powered pump, about 20-30 miles away - that I've visited a number of times while walking:


At our local town of Chesterfield (of the famous crooked spire) they have a human powered crane in the museum, that was used to build the church, it was brought down in fairly modern times:

 

sram

Member
And what level of power are you looking for? To recharge batteries in an electric tank, or to charge batteries in a communication device (cell phone) when someone is out in the battlefield?

you can look at anything from a hand-cranked generator (and various other human mechanically sounds generators), a paddle wheel Along a stream, wind devices, tidal generators, various forms of Solar, various electrochemical batteries (oxidizing Metal), thermoelectric (requires a warming or cooling surface), nuclear (radioisotope generator)....
At all levels actually. Let's ask the questions this way: What electricity generating technique would I be able to use for this specific military application - insert application- whereas others wouldn't really benefit me or be unpractical? For communications satellites for example, a radioisotope thermoelectric generator is appropriate because it has no moving parts and requires no maintenance and is better than solar cells when it comes to space. Satellites serve communications and serve the military.

You mentioned batteries in the field and this is definitely a field that can see improvements. Batteries add weight and are a pain to recharge. Batteries with higher capacities, less weight and size, less charging time will be revolutionary.........I have read about graphene batteries and super-capacitors, and it seems they have future.

You are right about hand-cranked generators, paddle wheels, and wind power, but I'm actually talking about innovative new ways. Something that is special in a way and will have a bigger positive effect in the future.

Thanks for your help, and sorry if I didn't put it in good words.
 

Nigel Goodwin

Super Moderator
Most Helpful Member
Batteries with higher capacities, less weight and size, less charging time will be revolutionary.........I have read about graphene batteries and super-capacitors, and it seems they have future.
Batteries of much improved specification are seriously required, in order to make all cars electric in the 'fairly' near future - perhaps graphene?, but unlikely to be super capacitors - they are generally pretty useless, and it's only their silly name that keeps them getting mentioned so much.
 

sram

Member
What are the emerging new technologies when it comes to electricity generation/production/transmission? Emerging: that is the word I was looking for.

If you ask me what is the problem that you are trying to solve:

- I want better efficiency
- I want less pollution (Environment friendly methods)
- More renewable energy, less nonrenewable sources.
- I want convenience (No wires)
- I want longevity (I remember my kid one time asked me: Dad, why don't they make mobile phones that require no recharging?). He was sick of having to recharge his phone every now and then ^_^ . It was an innocent question though. I told him, you do good at school and try to do something like you suggested when you grow up
 

gophert

Well-Known Member
Most Helpful Member
At all levels actually. Let's ask the questions this way: What electricity generating technique would I be able to use for this specific military application - insert application- whereas others wouldn't really benefit me or be unpractical? For communications satellites for example, a radioisotope thermoelectric generator is appropriate because it has no moving parts and requires no maintenance and is better than solar cells when it comes to space. Satellites serve communications and serve the military.

You mentioned batteries in the field and this is definitely a field that can see improvements. Batteries add weight and are a pain to recharge. Batteries with higher capacities, less weight and size, less charging time will be revolutionary.........I have read about graphene batteries and super-capacitors, and it seems they have future.

You are right about hand-cranked generators, paddle wheels, and wind power, but I'm actually talking about innovative new ways. Something that is special in a way and will have a bigger positive effect in the future.

Thanks for your help, and sorry if I didn't put it in good words.
Well, the options are endless and I am not for going to take the time to make a summary of all of them until you come to some focus on power, weight, and understand that instantaneous power from a source will be much more difficult (and unlikely) than storing it in some type of device (battery) and using more instantaneous power than the generator can provide.

also, you seem to be under some fantasy that a mysterious, revolutionary power source exists. Sorry, that's not going to happen. All future power sources will be incremental improvements on existing technologies. Graphene batteries will be an expensive and slight improvement on lithium batteries (but batteries are not technically a power source, just a storage medium).
 

gophert

Well-Known Member
Most Helpful Member
super capacitors - they are generally pretty useless, and it's only their silly name that keeps them getting mentioned so much.
but what about ultra capacitors...?
They are used as back-up or emergency power in existing applications but, short bursts, not moving a tank across a battlefield.

 

sram

Member
Well, the options are endless and I am not for going to take the time to make a summary of all of them until you come to some focus on power, weight, and understand that instantaneous power from a source will be much more difficult (and unlikely) than storing it in some type of device (battery) and using more instantaneous power than the generator can provide.
Hmmmm. Give me some time to comprehend what you just said. Please bear with me. Are you trying to say that immediately using the power generated to run a load is too difficult, that's why you have to have a mechanism to store power for later use???

You said endless. I caught that word. I'm not ganna leave you before you tell me about at least one thousand of them. hehehe ^_^

Jokes aside......Well we already talked about many of them:

-Thermoelectric generators
- Radioisotope thermoelectric generator
- Supercapacitors
- Graphene batteries
-Ultracapacitors (You just mentioned it and I was also reading about it the other day).
- Fuel cells
- Atomic battery
- Thermionic converts

Things like that. I'm just asking if there is more that are very remarkable that I missed.
 

gophert

Well-Known Member
Most Helpful Member
Hmmmm. Give me some time to comprehend what you just said. Please bear with me. Are you trying to say that immediately using the power generated to run a load is too difficult, that's why you have to have a mechanism to store power for later use???

You said endless. I caught that word. I'm not ganna leave you before you tell me about at least one thousand of them. hehehe ^_^

Jokes aside......Well we already talked about many of them:

-Thermoelectric generators
- Radioisotope thermoelectric generator
- Supercapacitors
- Graphene batteries
-Ultracapacitors (You just mentioned it and I was also reading about it the other day).
- Fuel cells
- Atomic battery
- Thermionic converts

Things like that. I'm just asking if there is more that are very remarkable that I missed.
Wood, rubber, vegetable oils - those are all nice versions of stored solar energy without a battery.
 

sram

Member
also, you seem to be under some fantasy that a mysterious, revolutionary power source exists. Sorry, that's not going to happen. All future power sources will be incremental improvements on existing technologies. Graphene batteries will be an expensive and slight improvement on lithium batteries (but batteries are not technically a power source, just a storage medium).
No, not at all. Energy can't be created nor destroyed, but it can change from one form into another, or however that rule is said. I understand that very well. I'm not looking for a magical solution, but the methods I wrote above in my previous post are really cool and will "seem" revolutionary if somebody imagined them 80 years ago for example.
 

sram

Member
Do you guys think this will work out?

 

rjenkinsgb

Well-Known Member
Most Helpful Member
Have a look at "solid electrolyte" batteries.

Present technology lithium cells have a limited life for various reasons, one of the main ones being that the plates physically expand and shrink slightly with each charge/discharge cycle, which causes fatigue cracking and gradual breaking up of the plates.

Solid electrolyte cells/batteries [or at least some claimed types] have no mechanical changes when charged and discharged, with near unlimited lifetimes predicted.

Some info referenced here, you should easily find more.

 

Pommie

Well-Known Member
Most Helpful Member
Is it only me that thinks the OP is looking for some ideal that doesn't exist. Energy (mainly) comes from the sun and can be used or stored. Many plants and organisms stored solar energy and we now use that energy in the form of coal and oil. To the OP, if you tell us the point of this question, we may be able to help. However, if it involves a sky fairy then count me out.

Mike.
 

rjenkinsgb

Well-Known Member
Most Helpful Member
He has mentioned geothermal a few times, though seems to think that is new or revolutionary, when it is really an old and established concept:


[As a prime source, I'd say that would be somewhere between gravitational - from the the energy stored during the formation of the planet - and nuclear, from decay of natural isotopes ??]

I was thinking it was likely for a science fair project or some school essay / thesis?
 

gophert

Well-Known Member
Most Helpful Member
I was thinking he is trying to write a grant for military funding. He keeps mentioning military.
 

sram

Member
Have a look at "solid electrolyte" batteries.

Present technology lithium cells have a limited life for various reasons, one of the main ones being that the plates physically expand and shrink slightly with each charge/discharge cycle, which causes fatigue cracking and gradual breaking up of the plates.

Solid electrolyte cells/batteries [or at least some claimed types] have no mechanical changes when charged and discharged, with near unlimited lifetimes predicted.

Some info referenced here, you should easily find more.

I'll look into that. It looks interesting.
 

sram

Member
He has mentioned geothermal a few times, though seems to think that is new or revolutionary, when it is really an old and established concept:


[As a prime source, I'd say that would be somewhere between gravitational - from the the energy stored during the formation of the planet - and nuclear, from decay of natural isotopes ??]

I was thinking it was likely for a science fair project or some school essay / thesis?
I mentioned geothermal because it relates to TEGs. I didn't know about TEGs before and when I learned about them I was like: Imagine what we can do with all this geothermal heat. Plus it is a renewable clean energy source. That's why It interested me.

And yes it is a mini-research for a training course I'm currently taking. And I work for the military.
 

rjenkinsgb

Well-Known Member
Most Helpful Member
Geothermal is definitely not renewable.
Agreed!

In fact if used on a large scale, it's not environmentally friendly and could affect global warming, as it relies on moving heat from (nearer) the earths core into the surface environment.
 

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