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Video display Gods, please help!! Industrial CRT conversion.

unclejed613

Well-Known Member
Most Helpful Member
WOW! Where did you find that and where can i get those honda connectors to make an adapter? Any chance the frequencies will work w a std monitor?
i think it IS a VGA monitor, just with a proprietary connector. how is this machine constructed, is there actually a VGA card on a PC motherboard buried somewhere inside? if so you should be able to eliminate the proprietary cable completely. i've worked for companies that prototype industrial systems, and not many people try to reinvent the wheel. even NCR, one of the "kings" of proprietary hardware, has run of the mill PC hardware inside most of their stuff.

as a matter of fact, i found a "howto" for converting a fanuc monitor to standard cables, hope this helps:
http://lcdparts.net/Files/CNCU_Manual.pdf
 

fastline

Member
Ha, don't take this as an insult, just a joke, but do you know Fanuc at all? They have been masters from the start of making EVERYTHING they touch proprietary. they system certainly is not PC based and they typically like to build the video right into the master control board so you have to replace the entire thing.....lol Actually, I doubt that part, but I am rather confident the card is proprietary. I do know for certain the card or plug for video anyway is also a Honda connector. They all are in that machine. Fanuc loves them.

There won't be another way than building an adaptor for the Honda to VGA.

After my thinking about the frequency, I realized I DID NOT even have the damn monitor powered when I ran that test. It was late and my brain was fried. I will test again and bet I will return some worthy values.
 

fastline

Member
Well..... sort of success....... The one machine that tested at 31khz scan rate worked great. The displayed image is just a single color and would assume either the video card or the OEM did not set things up for color. I will call to confirm that but at least I know I can run a simple monitor with it!

The other one tested at 25khz, which I knew was probably an issue, and I built a quick adapter for the Honda connector and when connected, the LCD goes from "no video input", to "out of range".

So...... is there any work around for the slower scan rate?
 

unclejed613

Well-Known Member
Most Helpful Member
that sounds like EGA video. i've seen several different HSYNC rates listed from 21.8 to 26.5khz for EGA. CRT monitors usually operate within a small frequency range because the flyback transformer and yoke coils tend to be somewhat narrow-band devices. there were multi-sync monitors, and many of them had several capacitors and resistors that would be switched in or out of circuit depending on the sweep frequencies. some of them actually used relays, and when you change video modes on the computer, you hear a bunch of clicking inside as the monitor detects the sweep rate changes. it's really difficult to track down a chart of video mode vs sweep rates, but i'll keep looking. if the monitor for the machine that has 25khz hsync is in any way usable, i would recommend seeing if the machine has a settings menu that allows you to change the video mode. if this machine is on a local network, you may also be able to telnet into it, and edit the configuration files from another computer.
 

fastline

Member
The controls on these are very proprietary and mostly locked down software wise, but the control is designed as a "boxed system" that can be mated to nearly anything so there are around 1000 parameters or more than can be set for various machines, servos, feeback, etc. However, the CRT function parameters are limited. I can switch from a 9" to a 14" monitor and can switch between color and monochrome. I have been resistance to switching the parameter to color because I am not sure what will happen! If I lose the entire display and cannot see anything, I have no way to return the parameter to the prior value other than completely reload the parameters which is a HUGE task!

If I had some confidence switching to color would still be visible, I would certainly do that but not sure if that would change the H freq or not.


I should mention the CRT currently is usable but is seeing the typical issues of CRTs. Horizontal lines, backlight is way too bright, and has burn in. There is just no sense in trying to work with CRT tech as an LCD is just far superior thus my push to convert to that.
 
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ronsimpson

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Most Helpful Member
can switch between color and monochrome
That could be the EGA/VGA switch.
switch from a 9" to a 14" monitor
?? might change the frequency ??

In modern computers, when you make a monitor change, you must respond with in 30 seconds or the settings go back to previous. (just in case things don't work) In your old computer who knows what will happen. (lost because you can't see )
 

fastline

Member
I think you are assuming a windows OS or comparable. These don't have that and the CRTs are always VERY proprietary, open chassis designs. When you set the parameter, it is set. You usually have to toggle the power to recognize the parameter change but these systems (Fanuc) are archaic by modern standards. Really still are. It is well known in all CNC equipment that you better know what you are doing when you play with parameters thus why they are always locked by one parameter called "parameter write enable". There can also be a password to access them.

If I had a backup plan, I would throw the switch and find out but I need to talk to someone in the know on this one.

I will bet if I called Fanuc for a new CRT, they probably have one, and it probably costs $2200!!!!

Fanuc is well known for using nothing standard. If a normal device would run on 120V, theirs would be 90V just to make it different. You won't find a standard video card or anything like that in it. Many times they build the video right into the main board so your choices are a very expensive new board or repairs. CNC stuff is unnecessarily expensive because OEMs cannot curb the costs for the thousands of lbs of metals in them, but they bank on selling cheap electronics for 100x their real value.
 

ronsimpson

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Most Helpful Member
have one, and it probably costs $2200!!!!
I don't think you can get one. I spent many decades designing OEM special monitors. Last time I replaced a CNC monitor I went to "Good Will" and got 5 different monitors. One worked with a pinout change. It looked real bad because the old monitor just set on a shelf behind the machine. Otherwise we were looking at replacing the computer.
 

unclejed613

Well-Known Member
Most Helpful Member
I should mention the CRT currently is usable but is seeing the typical issues of CRTs. Horizontal lines, backlight is way too bright, and has burn in.
sounds like the electrolytic caps in the video amp are dried out. it might not be an ideal fix, but it will buy some time.

there must be a corollary to Murphy's Law such as "Video Standards Aren't"... there are so many different interpretations of various video standards that it's probably safe to say you can find a monitor that will work... while most CRT monitors must be used at or near the sweep rates they are designed for, an LCD panel should be able to interpret any video source (it's just a matter of programming ). if you find an LCD monitor that does EGA or MCGA it should work

I will bet if I called Fanuc for a new CRT, they probably have one, and it probably costs $2200!!!!
a lot of companies do that, but i think it's so they can sell new machines.

it seems a lot of the "you have to buy service or parts from us" type business models are beginning to fail. if your company makes a widget, and charges out the wazoo for service contracts, somebody on the internet is going to reverse engineer that widget, and sell parts and service data for next to nothing. or maybe even plans and bill of materials for you to make your own.
 

ronsimpson

Well-Known Member
Most Helpful Member
Horizontal lines, backlight is way too bright, and has burn in.
There is probably a pot you can turn. Can you send a list of names ? "G2", "sub brightness", "master brightness", etc.
Are there pots on the flyback transformer?
 
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fastline

Member
I really don't want to waste time on that CRT. Even on the best day, they are not a nice to look at as an LCD so that is where we need to go.
 

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