toner transfer laminators

[ghostman11]

at present i do toner transfer with a GBC laminator and i get pretty good results, but i have to pass the pcb through it a few times and although i am aware you can mod the machine to get it hotter i dont fancy that much.
having a browse round today i came across this
**broken link removed**
i have contacted them to get a few more details, but i am hopeing is hot enough to do a board in a single pass and maybe take thicker boards

 

[Mr RB]

Yeouch! 120 pounds?

I bought a $25 laminator (that's about 15 pounds) and unscrewed to top cover and it had a little PCB inside with an opamp and triac etc, and a temperature control trimpot. Turning up the trimpot made it hotter. It was that easy. Some of the laminators have a thermal switch, but most these days (especially if they have a hot/cold setting and LEDs etc) have electronic heat control and are very easy to mod.

 

[ghostman11]

hi, yes i agree some are easy to mod, but your then into the realms of running them hotter than they designed for, alot of the sites detailing modding of various laminators say things the plastic case will deform etc etc. the main problem i face is actualy not the heat, at present i get my 0.6mm boards from the united states but with shipping its a rediculous price. i would like to use 1.6mm standard boards and cant find a laminator thats hot enough that will take that size.
theese printers i linked to were specificaly designed for softening toner to accept foil and they appear to be slightly wider in the roller gap. £120 is alot but then again i paid £85 for the GBC laminator and it still needs modding to get it to at its optimum for pcb's so price wise i dont think the printer is too bad if it works straight out the box and saves me money on pcb's.
on the other hand its too exspensive to just get one to try! so i posted it as i thought may be of use to someone considering doing toner transfer. the other point with modding laminators most the sites i have seen mention when modding the laminator the need to change the thermal fuse.
if my GBC packs up (this is the second ive had the other broke after a few months) then i may get one of theese hot foil printers. if i do i will post the results. out of interest RB what make and model of laminator did you get? always useful to know the laminators that are easy to mod

 

[tom_pay]

I just use a cloths iron, a bit of tape and a small piece of metal rod.

It is a lot cheaper and easier than a laminator, and gives great results.

Tom

 

[BobW]

I have a GBC laminator, and find that it works well unmodified, but it has to be allowed to warm up for at least a half hour before using. The "ready" light will come on after only about 5 minutes, but it appears there's enough thermal inertia in the thing that it still needs the extra time for all the parts to get heated up properly.

 

[Mr RB]

My $25 lamintaor feeds 1.6mm PCB fine. I had to cut a small amount of the plastic away on the rear so ther plastic did not scratch the top of the PCB on occasion. But the rollers feed 1.6mm FR4 fine.

Small cheap laminators seem to have more spindly (and flexible) roller shafts and if you check they have silicone rollers there is plenty of give to allow feeding 1.6mm stock.

Before buying a 120 pound unit I would take a chance on buying a 15 pound unit and spend half an hour modding it. There should be no need to change the thermal fuse, the fuse should be set for quite a high overtemp safety margin.

If it has an LED to show temp (mine flashes during warmup and full on when at temp) and temp hi/lo switches etc then you can be pretty sure it's electronic heat control. Mine uses a thermistor that is a few kohms when at temp so modding would be as easy as adding a resistor in series or paralle to change the temp, although like I said mine already had a trimpot with a fair bit of adjustment. I guess it's easier for the Chinese factory to make them with cheap thermistors and then just trim the temp later (rather than use quality temp sensors etc) so it's likely that most have a trimpot.

Sorry I don't know the brand, it was just a budget one from the newsagent. I'll dig it out of the storeroom later and take a photo if you like.

 

[ghostman11]

thanks rb that would be great, i have a cheapo also but that one has a thermal switch no fancy electronics in it at all! i also have a dead GBC that i might try to get running and mod it up (worth a try) the GBC one i use deff wont take 1.6mm board, maybe the cheaper laminators are the way to go! dont get me wrong i like the GBC its a nice machine but i would feel happier messing with a el cheapo

 

[shortbus=]

Just a dumb thought here(as most of mine seem to be) if it takes too many passes with the laminator to heat the board. Why not 'preheat' with the clothes iron and the feed through the laminator to actually do the transfer? Seems like its getting the even pressure that limits the use of the clothes iron, from what I've read.

 

[ghostman11]

i am not sure if i can explain this very well but i will try. i have found that with multiple passes you increase the risk of the traces compressing wich isnt a problem unless they are small and close together also, preheating the board does help, but would be alot nicer to just feed a board in one end take it out the other and hay presto done!! also in my case i have several hundread boards to do soon, yes i could and probaly should send them away but they are not all the same and i like to make my own boards.

 

[Mr RB]

I still run multiple passes, there's no drama with that it only takes a couple of seconds to grab the PCB and feed it back in the front. Part of the problem is the feed speed is a little fast so it will always take a few passes (based on my machine).

Without the temperature mod I was doing 15 or more passes, which was a pain, now it takes 5 to 7 passes and it's a lot more obvious when the PCB is "done".

The big benefit of the laminator over the iron is the laminator allows much better accuracy. With the iron you get 2 problems; 1. it heats the whole artwork, so the whole toner goes squidgy, and can smudge and move. 2. The iron heats the whole arwork and can make it shrink (I use pressnpeel blue).

With the laminator, only the one "strip" is melted at any one time, and the other areas of the PCB are cooler (less shrinkage) and stuck down (no movement, so it enables real fine tracks). I could never get great results with the iron, but the laminator is as easy as "feed it through a few times and it's always perfect".

My laminator is a Marbig brand "A4 laminator" with "adjustable temperature control" written on the box, but no model number. The front panel has a red and green LED and a switch for HIGH and LOW temperature settings. It's a very common style sold in newsagents and office supplies shops.

 

[ericgibbs]

hi R,
Is it this one.?
**broken link removed**

 

[ghostman11]

there has to be cheaper than that about eric as you can pick up a GBC for that kinda price second user

 

[Mr RB]

That's exactly the same one! Even the box is identical. But I got it new for $24.95 AUD, about 15 UK pounds. The newsagent had a big stack of them. They were marked down from about $39.95 to $24.95. The ebay ad is wrong about RRP being $99! Ouch!

And I would not pay $60 AUD like the ebay ad, as these small cheap laminators appear in all the office supplies junk mail specials regularly for very low prices. Google for your local office supplies store and see if their website has specials.

 

[ghostman11]

i dont think that particular model is availiable in the uk, well not that i can find but we should be able to track down somthing similar now i know what i am looking for! will keep you posted