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Time For Tariff's ?

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3v0

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I think china is doing a bang up job of ruining our economy with or without industrial spying. Our people and government do not seem to have any will to stop it. Perhaps we have the greater share of the blame.

ETO members from Brazil and [SIZE=+1]Venezuela have tell me they have around 50% inport duty and are limited to buying about $400US in electronics goods manufactured elsewhere.

I expect that few people in the US would like living under such restrictions. However there has to be a point where we put the survival of the economy/country first. I doubt anyone could with a platform advocating this and get elected.

Any law passed that increased the cost of manufacture in the US should impose a balancing import tariff. It would improve out ability to compete with countries that have few labor laws or environmental protections.

Determining the dollar amounts of such tariffs would be difficult but such efforts could be funded by revenue from the tariffs.

Another problem is that such protection stifles the need to improve efficiency. Maybe that is not all bad in that it means jobs for the masses?

It is clear that developing nations (can we still say 3rd world) advance by exporting their cheap goods to the rest of the world. To a degree I support this but at what point to we stop eroding our industrial and perhaps even intellectual base.

It seems that the large transformers used by the electrical grid are no longer manufactured in the US. If the sun were to overload the grid we would have to wait for the overseas factory to get around to making replacements. Too many issues like this.




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Their products wouldn't be selling so well here if we all didn't buy their stuff.;)

Its simple supply and demand principals. We want stuff cheap and they provide it cheaper than for what the local manufacturing places are able and or willing to produce it for. :)
 
Yea I'm very sad about them transformers, They are my favorite thing.

The old one for our house blew, and I can't wait until our new "chinese" one blows.
Our "chinese" one does look chinesey, it says 50kva on the front, nothing else. It doesn't even have an overload light!
LOL I wonder if it will make a huge fireball when it blows!

Atleast where I live they still have some of the old black tansformers. :D
I call them pole-pigs.
 
Greedyness

I think most Americans are VERY greedy.
Some stupid people destroy thier phones if one little thing with the phone isn't perfect. HEY! It still works, so why break it???
Then they buy another. Then destroy that. Then buy another.

Why have so many people put up videos on YouTube of them destroying perfectly good ipods, or iphones, which cost an arm and a leg!
 
To me the answer is to impose the same restrictions on imports that the importing country puts on OUR products. If another country charges a 30% fee on our product, we charge 30% on their product. This in the long run would help all countries to manufacture for themselves.

As far as imports by themselves taking away our jobs, it's not all the foreign country doing it. The big shots of our companies decide to send the work over there and sell it as ther own. That to me is the cause of the collapse of the economy of the world.
 
To me the answer is to impose the same restrictions on imports that the importing country puts on OUR products. If another country charges a 30% fee on our product, we charge 30% on their product. This in the long run would help all countries to manufacture for themselves.

As far as imports by themselves taking away our jobs, it's not all the foreign country doing it. The big shots of our companies decide to send the work over there and sell it as ther own. That to me is the cause of the collapse of the economy of the world.

You are right shortbus=, that is a great idea!
 
The problem is the US doesn't produce common goods that foreigners would want. Our automobiles used to be a world standard but not any more so they end up staying on our shores as the Hyundai, Suburau, Mazda, BMW's are trucked past them to dealerships. We don't produce cell phones, and other needy/worthwhile consumer electronics. Even if we did, the many beer drinking, union brain-washed workers wouldn't work for anything less than $20/hr. and a generous benefits package and even then, product quality would be skeptical. Our current automobiles are a perfect example and so is Harley motorcycles. Harley's are an American icon with their employees that revell in patriotism over that bike brand. Yet they pump out problem-prone products and then we have a lower-priced Japanese Suzuki Boulevard outperforming a Harley in numerous ways. While I admit big trucks like Peterbuilt, Kenworth, Mack, OshKosh,& Freightliner are excellent American vehicles, why would European nations opt for our brands when they have reliable Volvo and Mercedes big rigs? Same for Asian nations and their heavy industries like Hyundai, Komatsu, Isuzu, etc. A Korean Hyundai excavator moves dirt just as well as an expensive USA made Caterpillar!

No, I think America just needs to figure out how to make vast sums of money by starting battles, skirmishes, wars, etc. That's the one area the Feds can effectively create jobs in: is needing lots of soldiers! :( :(
 
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The last few decades has witnessed a dramatic decline in American industry as competition from emerging economies has siphoned off much of the domestic production. The US has also suffered from a series of corrupt business practices in recent years, from large corporations “cooking the books” to the more recent fraudulent banking ponzi schemes. It would be a mistake to blame overseas industry for the west’s woes. US consumers demand cheap goods, and imports fill the desire. That said, I agree it is hypocritical when a society demands the environment be protected and they turn around and buy from producers who don’t take measures to make their goods in a responsible way.

What I find disgusting about the whole thing is how the American worker is simultaneously getting the shaft and the blame for the problem. Sure, US produced cars and motorcycles were crap. Who designed then? Who cut corners? Who output products that were designed to fail? It certainly wasn’t the workers who forged and assembled the products. They were also consumers, and understandably wanted products that would last. The fault lies with the bean counters and corporate big-wigs who thought only of maximizing profit. When the Japanese came along and ate up the demand for good, reliable products, then the profiteers began to realize they could no longer make profits by making junk. American manufactures were forever in the search for cheap labor, and willing to move operations all over the country, and later all over the globe just to save money. But the American worker was never the problem. They were good enough to forge a modern society out of the wilderness; they were capable of making some of the best products on earth. It was always the corporate fat cats who cut corners, made products that were inferior by design and screwed then blamed the workers.
And they are doing it still.
 
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What I find disgusting about the whole thing is how the American worker is simultaneously getting the shaft and the blame for the problem. Sure, US produced cars and motorcycles were crap. Who designed then? Who cut corners? Who output products that were designed to fail? It certainly wasn’t the workers who forged and assembled the products. They were also consumers, and understandably wanted products that would last. The fault lies with the bean counters and corporate big-wigs who thought only of maximizing profit.
Not quite accurate there! Plenty of American workers on the lines with bad attitudes and the like that really didn't and still don't fairly earn their pay and benefits package. I know of one guy who worked for Pontiac spot welding hoods and trunk lids. He thought it was a joke to skip some spot welds here and there. Turns out his brother-in-law bought one of his crafted autos (thinking if his B-I-L had a hand in the assy. then it would be a quality product) and the trunk lid did nothing but rattle constantly from vibrations. When he learned the B-I-L purposely skipped spot welds he was very upset at the least. There weren't enough of these failed Pontiacs to warrant a recall but it fell on the dealers to rectify by doping the deck with sealant like Liquid Nails.

Hell, how many times do we hears the big pitch about excellent customer service coming from companies. Then when the times comes to use customer service, you get rerouted to various departments via voice prompts and when you finally reach the proper department, the connection gets interrupted and cut off! Verizon is famous for that... very famous. :(
 
Then when the times comes to use customer service, you get rerouted to various departments via voice prompts and when you finally reach the proper department, the connection gets interrupted and cut off! Verizon is famous for that... very famous. :(

Oh Verizon Verizon Verizon! :rolleyes:
 
Not quite accurate there! Plenty of American workers on the lines with bad attitudes and the like that really didn't and still don't fairly earn their pay and benefits package. I know of one guy who worked for Pontiac spot welding hoods and trunk lids. He thought it was a joke to skip some spot welds here and there. Turns out his brother-in-law bought one of his crafted autos (thinking if his B-I-L had a hand in the assy. then it would be a quality product) and the trunk lid did nothing but rattle constantly from vibrations. When he learned the B-I-L purposely skipped spot welds he was very upset at the least. There weren't enough of these failed Pontiacs to warrant a recall but it fell on the dealers to rectify by doping the deck with sealant like Liquid Nails.

Hell, how many times do we hears the big pitch about excellent customer service coming from companies. Then when the times comes to use customer service, you get rerouted to various departments via voice prompts and when you finally reach the proper department, the connection gets interrupted and cut off! Verizon is famous for that... very famous. :(

Uh-huh. You know a a guy knows a guy who skipped some spot welds, and that translates to an indictment of American workers everywhere. On the other hand, we all know of corporations who produce poor quality products that are designed to fail or quickly become obsolete, cook their books to hide losses from investors, manipulate markets to create artificial shortages, create toxic products that poison the market place to the point of complete economic failure. I'd say the accuracy of my comments speaks for itself.

The vast majority of Americans work hard, long hours and take very little time off. They are typically proud of the quality of thier work, and breaches of the quality of American produced products are more often the result of poor management, more concerned with profit than quality. Just like your Verizon story, it's a management decision to replace customer service workers with automated phone robots, to save a few bucks. It's beyond rediculous to think you can blame workers for what can only be a management decision. American workers aren't to blame. They do their jobs more than sufficiently, but get the blame and shaft when businesses fail, typically due to corrupt or incompetent management.
 
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From what I see on this side of the pond and hear on the grapevine China has bought a decent slice of the US farming land and business from underneath the population, so how can one put a tariff on a country when that country owns a fair share of US business's and farming land. It's easy to see why yankies companies are coming over here and buying every big business they can lay their hands on. So if you yankies think it's bad now just watch this spot '.' as before you know the US will soon be a called a 3rd world country......
 
Brown Out--- I realize not all American laborers are like that lazy spot welder for GM Auto. But we do have our fair share of them, so don't be too generous is patronizing the US working man. I agree also about greedy corporations and their intentional business practices. It's a mix of both good and bad when it comes to anything in life. Some companies truly produce quality goods that last. Others produce stuff that has a designed-in finite service life perhaps to generate new sales. I've been around enough in the fields of general labor, higher education, healthcare, and retail that I've seen enough examples of lazy to incompetent workers as well as those who are trying and working their best. When a country like America is in the position it's in currently, we cannot afford to have any workers sloughing off on the job nor can we afford to have companies blow their horns about quality craftsmanship while they produce items of poor quality or unecessary recalls. Mistakes are mistakes but neglect and greed do not belong in the manufacturing process no matter what part of the world an item is produced in.
 
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I don't believe I'm being generous or patronizing. The US didn't become an industrial power by mistake. It took alot of sweat, grit and determination by a hell of a lot of Americans to get here. I don't know what a "fair share" of lazy workers is, but in every single labor study I've seen, Americans work as long and hard as any industrial worker in the world, even comparable to the Japanese. Right now, I'm working for a company who has won the very prestigious Boeing "Supplier Of The Year" award, which recognizes suppliers who deliver the highest quality products. That proves that US companies that are properly managed can still make products that compete successfully anywhere in the world.

I can find more truth in the words from Alabama:

There are people in the country,
Who work hard everyday.
Not for fame or fortune do they strive.
But the fruits of thier labor,
Is worth more than their pay,
And it's time a few of them were recongnized.



Truth, not patronage.
 
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Back to tariffs. My first understanding of import tariffs came about during the early 70s in Japan. During the early 70s I spent considerable time living in Japan. This was a period when the US dollar was strong and the exchange rate was 360 Yen to $1.00 USD. One day standing with some friends I saw in disbelief a new 1970 Plymouth Fury drive past us. I pointed it out as I had never seen an American made car in Japan.

The friends I was with quickly pointed out the owner was a very wealthy Japanese business man and such a car was a luxury. How the hell could a $3,300 car be a luxury item? Hell, everyone in the US was driving cars just like that. My first lesson was that the import tariffs on American cars were 100%. That lowly $3,300 Plymouth Fury carries a $6,600 price tag in Japan or about 2,376,000 Yen. That is before local taxes and delivery.

During those years as the Japanese industrial machine grew the people (average people) were forced to buy Japanese products. A bottle of Johnny Walker Black label scotch was well over $100 USD while a bottle of Japanese scotch was about $7.00 to $10.00. Imported products were reserved for the very wealthy.

Note when Japanese cars began to pour into the US, during the 70s when we hardly taxed them at all. During WWII the US marched into the streets of Tokyo at a cost of tens of thousands of American lives. The Japanese later marched into the streets of Detroit and never fired a single shot. Go figure. The ***** was the American auto industry was making an inferior product that had never been challenged.

Detroit cried foul as it could not compete with Japans auto industry. Their workers were paid low wages. This was a time when unskilled workers in the US auto industry were paid far more than their worth. The US is a victim of its own demise.

In defense of the union workers I work with many and we are a large manufacturing company. Our bargaining unit (union) employees do a damn good job and care about their work. It's a culture thing. They are paid a fair wage and expected to do a good job paying attention to detail in the product. Their pay grades are based on the skills needed to do their jobs.

Overall it is difficult for the US to compete in a global market because of the rules. Has anyone been to China? Great place for smog and raw sewage and worker safety is not a paramount concern.

bryan1:
so how can one put a tariff on a country when that country owns a fair share of US business's

Yep, China holds the keys to the US bank.

Just My Take
Ron
 
A lot of people do not understand the vastly uneven playing field regarding the tariffs places on the import of US goods to other countries. I was not thinking of that when I started this thread but it is very on topic.

My point was the additional burden created by US laws to protect the environment, unions or whatever. Taxes in general. Without balancing import tariffs these laws put US buisness at a huge disadvantage. And the US worker.
 
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