Putting a man on the moon

[zahwi]

The joke goes: we can put a man on the moon but we can't get the pigeons of the roof.
In this town they decided to reduce carbon emission and they switched off every other street light by disconnecting the wire to it. Most of us will agree that the better solution would have been too change all the bulbs to half the power. Of course that is more expensive so they didn't do that.
Walking at night is very difficult now. Where the light is off it is too dark and I often trip on the uneven pavement. When you under the light your eyes adapt to the light and it makes it harder in the dark area.
To my opinion society is going backward. Putting a man on the moon doesn't prove that we are smarter, it only proves that even idiots can put a man on the moon.

 

[Ratchit]

The joke goes: we can put a man on the moon but we can't get the pigeons of the roof.
In this town they decided to reduce carbon emission and they switched off every other street light by disconnecting the wire to it. Most of us will agree that the better solution would have been too change all the bulbs to half the power. Of course that is more expensive so they didn't do that.
Walking at night is very difficult now. Where the light is off it is too dark and I often trip on the uneven pavement. When you under the light your eyes adapt to the light and it makes it harder in the dark area.
To my opinion society is going backward. Putting a man on the moon doesn't prove that we are smarter, it only proves that even idiots can put a man on the moon.

I would think that removing the bulb would be quicker, cheaper and easier to turn off the light.

You should not confuse our ability to solve a problem with the financial resources required to do it. The Moon Project had almost carte blanche to accomplish their goal. We could solve pigeon and dog droppings, street lighting problems, and whatever else you can think of if money were no object. Money and technical ability are two different things.

Ratch

 

[large_ghostman]

Money and technical ability are two different things.

Ratch

block of my school didnt have disabled toilets and this is illegal in the EU, the local council didnt have much money to correct this. So what did they do?

They paid £15,000 for an architect to come draw up plans of the cheapest way to alter one of the existing toilet blocks, because he was paid £15,000 the school didnt have enough left to actually implement the drawing's! So instead the toilets were painted for thw third time in 2 years and that block still has no disabled toilets. Its a shame councils lack both of the above

 

[ronsimpson]

They paid £15,000 for an architect to come draw up plans of the cheapest way to ........disabled toilets

For only £1,500 I will come and disable toilets. (turn off the water will disable most toilets)
LOL

 

[large_ghostman]

For only £1,500 I will come and disable toilets. (turn off the water will disable most toilets)
LOL

Ahhhhh, you might hit a small problem, the toilets have flooded since and that was the point they discovered the whole block isnt isolated from mains water. I doubt anyone even knows where the main supply valve is, my school is often in the news because of the PFI fiasco with it.

You couldnt make it up but NO ONE is making money out the deal, the company that built and leases the school has a contract to maintain the school in the same condition as day 1 for 30 years. Sounds great seeing as the rental on it is eye watering! But you get really stupid things crop up like the external paint. This year some of the very expensive exterior colour coating flaked off the school, jnot much but around 3% of surface area.

So it had to be recoated.........Except no one kept nor does anyone make the one off colour that was chosen! so in the summer holidays last year the entire school (its huge) had to be stripped and recoated so it looked like it did when it opened, all this had to be done in 6 weeks holiday for safety. The cost was apparently £1.3m.

I will try and get some pics in the week of some cracking mistakes with my school, like the coat rails with 12 inch wide wooden backs that run straight through the middle of the back windows! Genius

Or our central staircase that dosnt actually go anywhere or lead to anything as they put it on following outdated plans when building. Or the exam we cant use because for exams we have to have doors shut, only if you shut the doors in the exam hall the CO2 goes above legal levels.

Or our lighting system that no one knows how to shut off, so all main lights in the school including security lighting are on 24/7.

One chemistry block that cant do anything involving heat or flame as it dosnt meet fire safety rules. Lucky enough the same block has fume cupboards where the vents couldnt be routed outside so we cant use them.

 

[zahwi]

Thanks Little Ghostman, you got the point!

 

[zahwi]

We could solve pigeon and dog droppings, street lighting problems, and whatever else you can think of if money were no object.

So you think the pigeons are still on the roof because we don't have the money to get them off.

 

[Ratchit]

So you think the pigeons are still on the roof because we don't have the money to get them off.

Correct.

Ratch

 

[large_ghostman]

So you think the pigeons are still on the roof because we don't have the money to get them off.

I dont, I think they are still on the roof because health and safety people wont let anyone gone near a roof, let alone tackle the savage pigeon! Far Far safer to have people slip up on pigeon shoot and sue for falling.

 

[zahwi]

Believing that money stops us from getting the pigeons off the roof is the same as believing that windows 10 is spying on us because it wants to protect us from the bad people.
It is also the same as paying protection money to the mafia so they in return protect us from somebody burning our house.

 

[Ratchit]

Believing that money stops us from getting the pigeons off the roof is the same as believing that windows 10 is spying on us because it wants to protect us from the bad people.
It is also the same as paying protection money to the mafia so they in return protect us from somebody burning our house.

Believing that no amount of money can resolve the pigeon problem (PP) is like saying that DDT and other measures did not eradicate the Anopheles mosquito (yellow fever carrier), and thereby enabled the building of the Panama Canal. It is also the same as paying for spraying in residential areas to protect all inhabitants within from an infestation of blood-loving insects.

Ratch

 

[large_ghostman]

Money is simply a concept that only functions because we believe the promise written on the paper, one day we will wake up and realize nothing actually backs that promise anymore!


Up the revolution

 

[Ratchit]

Money is simply a concept that only functions because we believe the promise written on the paper, one day we will wake up and realize nothing actually backs that promise anymore!


Up the revolution

It is more than a concept. It is an implementation of that concept. Specifically, it is the government's promise that it will provide goods and services when presented with that piece of paper or coin. If the government honors that promise, then others will also do so. All governments take their currency seriously, whether they succeed in honoring their promise of value or not. So whether money is presented as a physical **** or some numbers in a bank's financial file, it is still something that has value, and cannot be dismissed as a groupthink creation.

Ratch

 

[large_ghostman]

It is more than a concept. It is an implementation of that concept. Specifically, it is the government's promise that it will provide goods and services when presented with that piece of paper or coin. If the government honors that promise, then others will also do so. All governments take their currency seriously, whether they succeed in honoring their promise of value or not. So whether money is presented as a physical **** or some numbers in a bank's financial file, it is still something that has value, and cannot be dismissed as a groupthink creation.

Ratch

I think most of that is from times long gone.

Apparently (according to modern studies) currency and the paper promise had to have the physical backing of gold, however a certain country found itself without enough gold to back the paper. So said country dropped the gold backing, from that point on currency has nothing but a promise behind it. Take the present situation. When currency was gold backed then if every one said look I want the gold not the paper the government could keep the promise and switch the paper to gold.

In the here and now if every creditor returned the paper and asked for it to be honored there would be two options. Tell them sorry not enough to go around, or offer a binary form of the promise (numbers on a screen).

Bitcoin is fascinating as it like a micro economy in action, the price rises and falls freely and it is back by the simple understanding that it 'can' be exchanged for the paper promise.

Interesting to note that many very wealthy people prefer to deposit with banks with large gold reserves or buy gold directly. Watch the futures markets, the other day when China was suspended on trading Gold shot up in value and investors sought a safe haven. One day too much paper promise will be printed, one day the stupid will realize that what they hold in there is exactly what it is 'PAPER'.

Greece can now only ever borrow, it can never pay back what it owes, but like the banks in the big crash its too big to let it fall, Imagine if the EU let Greece fail........ People might start to wonder about the paper promise once they saw what its real worth is.

The other reason for paper promises is purely to make taxation easier, a barter system has merit but no favor and the taxation was a night mare. The USA debt cant even be covered by above ground oil anymore, the price has slipped too far. Saudi has high unemployment and limited supplies, its a war of oil being fought behind computer screens and on trading floors. Extremely interesting to watch the western world seemingly dig a deeper and deeper hole.

 

[Gasboss775]

Ahhhhh, you might hit a small problem, the toilets have flooded since and that was the point they discovered the whole block isnt isolated from mains water. I doubt anyone even knows where the main supply valve is, my school is often in the news because of the PFI fiasco with it.

My wife always said PFI would be a disaster and yet again she was right!

_____________________

The joke goes: we can put a man on the moon but we can't get the pigeons of the roof.
In this town they decided to reduce carbon emission and they switched off every other street light by disconnecting the wire to it. Most of us will agree that the better solution would have been too change all the bulbs to half the power. Of course that is more expensive so they didn't do that.
Walking at night is very difficult now. Where the light is off it is too dark and I often trip on the uneven pavement. When you under the light your eyes adapt to the light and it makes it harder in the dark area.
To my opinion society is going backward. Putting a man on the moon doesn't prove that we are smarter, it only proves that even idiots can put a man on the moon.

Regarding going to the moon, who thinks it really happened? Anybody got any good conspiracy theories about it?

 

[Ratchit]

I think most of that is from times long gone.

Apparently (according to modern studies) currency and the paper promise had to have the physical backing of gold, however a certain country found itself without enough gold to back the paper. So said country dropped the gold backing, from that point on currency has nothing but a promise behind it. Take the present situation. When currency was gold backed then if every one said look I want the gold not the paper the government could keep the promise and switch the paper to gold.

Tying the value of currency to a commodity is not a good thing either. The price and availability of commodities go up and down, which is not a good thing for currency. The US used to back its currency in gold, but found it was not a good way to do it for the reason I gave. Ft. Knox is full of gold, but no government financial managers want to go back to the gold standard.

In the here and now if every creditor returned the paper and asked for it to be honored there would be two options. Tell them sorry not enough to go around, or offer a binary form of the promise (numbers on a screen).

Which is why the US currency is not backed up by commodities anymore.

Bitcoin is fascinating as it like a micro economy in action, the price rises and falls freely and it is back by the simple understanding that it 'can' be exchanged for the paper promise.

And not backed up by any institution that will guarantee its value. Sounds more like a scam than a currency. Something that can fall and break at any time and leave a lot of folks holding the empty bag. I don't see what is fascinating about that.

Interesting to note that many very wealthy people prefer to deposit with banks with large gold reserves or buy gold directly. Watch the futures markets, the other day when China was suspended on trading Gold shot up in value and investors sought a safe haven. One day too much paper promise will be printed, one day the stupid will realize that what they hold in there is exactly what it is 'PAPER'.

Investing in volatile commodities is fine for individuals, but not for currency. The paper is backed by a promise based on faith and trust. Many expensive contracts, treaties, documents such the Magna Carta and the US Constitution are written on "just paper". So your argument that money is has no value because it is recorded on a perishable material or computer bits just does not hold up to critical analysis.

Greece can now only ever borrow, it can never pay back what it owes, but like the banks in the big crash its too big to let it fall, Imagine if the EU let Greece fail........ People might start to wonder about the paper promise once they saw what its real worth is.

Greece can pay up if they have the resolve to do it. I think we should let institutions fail as a lesson to us as to what happens when they are not watched closely.

The other reason for paper promises is purely to make taxation easier, a barter system has merit but no favor and the taxation was a night mare. The USA debt cant even be covered by above ground oil anymore, the price has slipped too far. Saudi has high unemployment and limited supplies, its a war of oil being fought behind computer screens and on trading floors. Extremely interesting to watch the western world seemingly dig a deeper and deeper hole.

Taxation should be easy. Why spend a lot of money and effort collecting taxes? What is above ground oil? Saudi Arabia has more of the proven free oil reserves (easy to get at) than any other country. You cannot fight behind a computer screen unless you control something that others want. The world is awash in oil now. What hole are you talking about?

Ratch

 

[Ratchit]

My wife always said PFI would be a disaster and yet again she was right!

_____________________




Regarding going to the moon, who thinks it really happened? Anybody got any good conspiracy theories about it?

Anyone who thinks that the Moon Project was a scam is an idiot. There is no way something that big could be kept secret. There are too many unscreened people involved who would either blab outright or on their death beds. How would the government enforce a command not to talk? The project was unclassified. I challenge anyone to find a upstanding, reliable scientific participant in the program who says no one walked on the moon.

Ratch

 

[large_ghostman]

Tying the value of currency to a commodity is not a good thing either. The price and availability of commodities go up and down, which is not a good thing for currency. The US used to back its currency in gold, but found it was not a good way to do it for the reason I gave. Ft. Knox is full of gold, but no government financial managers want to go back to the gold standard.



Which is why the US currency is not backed up by commodities anymore.



And not backed up by any institution that will guarantee its value. Sounds more like a scam than a currency. Something that can fall and break at any time and leave a lot of folks holding the empty bag. I don't see what is fascinating about that.



Investing in volatile commodities is fine for individuals, but not for currency. The paper is backed by a promise based on faith and trust. Many expensive contracts, treaties, documents such the Magna Carta and the US Constitution are written on "just paper". So your argument that money is has no value because it is recorded on a perishable material or computer bits just does not hold up to critical analysis.


Greece can pay up if they have the resolve to do it. I think we should let institutions fail as a lesson to us as to what happens when they are not watched closely.


Taxation should be easy. Why spend a lot of money and effort collecting taxes? What is above ground oil? Saudi Arabia has more of the proven free oil reserves (easy to get at) than any other country. You cannot fight behind a computer screen unless you control something that others want. The world is awash in oil now. What hole are you talking about?

Ratch

You need a word with my teachers then, we have just done this topic and it was nothing like you describe.

If you track gold over ten years the price is more stable than ANY currency tracked like for like over the same period. Saying commodities go up and down in value is ridiculous, so does every currency in the world and often to a far greater extent. Your argument is like saying buy a petrol engine because diesel ones use fuel.

The reason for changing from the gold standard was to avoid bankruptcy, I can link to video on the school server but when I did the unit project work I found alot of good video on youtube that I referenced and used, I can dig them up if you want or you can go looking, its pretty interesting.


The only reason the world is awash with oil is simply because production is being kept higher than demand (simple economics used for geo political reasons).

Just incase you are not aware the majority of reachable oil in the states needs fracking and cost around ~$53 a barrel (4 months ago price when I did the project), Saudi oil cost around $32 a barel to extract but the Saudi Government has admitted openly and recently that at current production the oil is out in 25 years. Production is being kept high to stop much needed profit flowing into the states, the reasons are Geo political and involve religion and politics to an extent I am not going to explain (I am POSITIVE I dont have too, you have TV set so you can work it out).

I find your views very 90's and outdated, certainly not based on evidence,fact or what is actually happening. The hole I was referring too is the nation debt including the figures they dont publish, recently even Hillary was hauled before the senate? (one the houses) and alot is coming out surrounding vast sums that have gone missing (Trillions).

I wouldnt normally come out and flatly say your wrong, but your statement about gold rising and falling in value as if currency dosnt was telling, from that point on you had lost the argument as even a quick research would show its more stable than any currency tracked side by side. I love a debate but it becomes pointless when one side wont do the research to back there version.

Try and find the bit that says you moved from gold because it was unstable, I think you misheard, what was unstable wasnt gold but currency

https://www.kitco.com/ind/Fraser/20...Gold-Reflects-the-Value-of-the-US-Dollar.html

quick quote from above " The freeing of the US dollar from the gold standard has enabled it to fluctuate more widely, while the value of the gold remains stable, making it a safe harbour for investors in times of uncertainty, as a hedge against inflation and recession. The value of the gold remains stable in comparison to currencies,"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_United_States_dollar

As to having alot of gold on you tube is a vid of committee meeting last year where a senator and one of your money people admit you dont own a single $ of the gold you have, its all taken up in foreign debt! Which is still mostly metal backed

 

[zahwi]

Up the revolution

Just name the place.

 

[large_ghostman]

Just name the place.

Hmm need to finish my homework and exams first, then put the bins out. Give me your number and I will call you when I am allowed out