Pic Vs Basic?

[david hasselhoff]

Well I'm fairly new to micro controllers and circuitry in general, but I want to get into micro controllers.


Are BASIC Stamp and PIC just different types / brands?

Which would be good for a beginner but also has a lot of potential and functionality?

Thanks.

 

[dknguyen]

A Basic Stamp IS a PIC. THe difference is the BASIC Stamp has a small inpterpreter IC mounted on the PCB alongside the PIC so that you can use BASIC to program it.

THe PIC has more functioanlity. It does not have an interpreter (and therefore runs faster I believe). You can use assembler, C, Basic, or whatever you want to code it- if you have a programmer (a piece of hardware which may be separate or build onto the board), and the right compiler (you know what that is right?).

THe BASIC stamps have the programming hardware on the PCB already (or bootloader code on the chip, I am not sure which) so you can just plug your PC into the PCB (of course, you can also do this with a PIC and bootloader, or if you have the know-how, build the programming hardware onto your PCB).

Basically, the PIC can do anything and more than the BASIC stamp, because the BASIC stamp is a PIC.

 

[david hasselhoff]

What would be a good PIC to start out that I can flash preferably with a parallel cable?

Is this a good one?

https://www.microchipdirect.com/ProductSearch.aspx?Keywords=DV164101

 

[Leftyretro]

PICAXE is also another PIC based micro controller that is programmed using Basic with a PC editor program and then downloaded to the device. Not as fast as a PIC using assembly but very inexpensive start-up costs, just a few dollars as the software is free and the PC download circuit is just 2 resistors and a comm cable.

Lefty

 

[Oznog]

BASIC Stamp is also very, very slow and quite limited. It's a pretty warped version of a microcontroller. IMHO, they took a simple, effective concept and invented this repackaging and spend a lot to convince people that PICs are too hard for newbies to learn. Nothing is further from the truth!

If you have a chip with a "bootloader" on it, you can program a chip through a serial port with a simple level converter. However, really a full programmer and preferrably an ICD + programmer will serve you better. Those can go from $40 or so up to $200. The ones which can program through the USB port are great. Note that some use a USB plug for power but have no ability to actually link to the computer through the USB port, those are serial-only.

 

[david hasselhoff]

Well I was looking at this breadboard.

https://microcontrollershop.com/product_info.php?products_id=561

https://microcontrollershop.com/product_info.php?products_id=988

What languages would I be able to program that PIC in?

I also do not have a serial port in my computer, so I would have to buy a PCI serial card, but those are rather expensive. Would a serial to usb converter work with this breadboard?

Thanks for all the info!

 

[dknguyen]

You are best trying to link to the chip's product webpage or the datasheet...not the store because it won't load for us what you see.

I recommend PIC18F or dsPIC30F.

 

[blueroomelectronics]

The 18F series have a free limited edition Swordfish BASIC. The 200 variable limit is still far more than the very limited BASIC Stamp.

 

[david hasselhoff]

So I think I'm going to go with the CK1710A, which includes a ZIF socket for $59.95 at **broken link removed**
I'm also going to go with the 16f84 PIC


Is this a good start for a beginner?

 

[dknguyen]

Good luck.

 

[wschroeder]

The 18F series have a free limited edition Swordfish BASIC. The 200 variable limit is still far more than the very limited BASIC Stamp.

I believe that's now a 256 RAM limit which means that 18-pin PIC18's can be programmed to max with the free compiler (nice feature for a couple of your products). Swordfish Basic is arguably the best structured Basic compiler available. There are also plans to make it compatible with Proteus ISIS.

 

[futz]

So I think I'm going to go with the CK1710A, which includes a ZIF socket for $59.95 at **broken link removed**

I'm also going to go with the 16f84 PIC


Is this a good start for a beginner?

NO! It's a very poor start.

That programmer is very poorly supported. I have one of its cousins (from the same K series of programmers) from the same company. It's pathetically slow! There are many PICs that it won't program. Firmware updates from the company are miserably few and VERY far between. After much frustration I finally chucked it in a box and bought a good programmer.

Also, I'm pretty sure the CK1710A does not do ICSP programming, which is something you very much want/need. Without it you have to pull your PIC out of its circuit, put it in the programmer, program it, put it back in circuit, run it, pull it out, program it, put it back... and so on. It's a horrible way to work.

With ICSP (In Circuit Programming) you have a wire from your programmer to your target PIC board or breadboard. To program the PIC you just hit a few keys or click a few mouses and it's done. No tedious jacking the chip in and out constantly.

What you want is something like a Microchip PICkit2 or ICD2. Either a Microchip one or a clone of either programmer is fine. They're VERY well supported by the manufacturer of PICs.

A very good PICkit2 clone is Blueroom Electronics Junebug. I'm not sure where to buy one of these right now. Harass Bill at Blueroom I guess. I have one (Bill sent me a sample board and I bought the parts) and I'm very happy with it.

A very good ICD2 clone is Blueroom Electronics Inchworm+, available at Dipmicro Electronics. I have one of these as well (with the Unicorn USB board) and it's excellent. (NOTE: Dipmicro is closed till January sometime, so if you want an Inchworm+ before then harrass Bill again )

There are some other good clones out there as well. Sparkfun Electronics has one. I don't know details of the rest, but there are others.

I'm also going to go with the 16f84 PIC

That's an antique. Get a modern PIC. There are several that are pin-compatible with the old 16F84, but much better (more memory, more features, etc.), like the 16F628 or the newer 16F88.

Another nice 18-pin PIC is the 18F1320. It's not pin-compatible with the 16F84 though (not that that's a big deal anyway). The 18F PICs are easier to program than the 16F's.

 

[Pommie]

I have to agree with Futz and will also endorse the Junebug.

Mike.

 

[mramos1]

David H,

I think the Inchworm+ kit is a good start for you (https://www.blueroomelectronics.com).

You can build the kit and learn more about circuits. Bill's manuals are very detailed and you can debug and get it running.

The Junebug will allow you to use the SwordFish basic compiler, a very nice compiler, but no 12F/16F support. Price is right and very nice layout.

If you go with the Inchworm+. Mikrobasic and SourceBoost are good BASIC compilers. The SourceBoost guys are a little slow on the BASIC side but have a great product.

 

[blueroomelectronics]

All told I use the Junebug more than the Inchworm now.

Mike have you had a chance to build the Junebug kit?

 

[Pommie]

Mike have you had a chance to build the Junebug kit?

Yes, but I only built the programmer part. I have all the other part, just haven't got around to soldering it up. I've been a bit busy on another project.

It does seem to be more reliable than the ICD2.

I have been thinking about your book project and if you need any example code then I'm happy to help.

Mike.

 

[futz]

All told I use the Junebug more than the Inchworm now.

Me too. But the other day I ran out of power with the Junebug (the USB limit) and now I'm using my Inchworm+ again. It's good to have both!

 

[blueroomelectronics]

I used two USB connectors when I was programming the Unicorn LCD demo. I've also found switchmode USB wall warts 1000ma @ 5V

 

[mvs sarma]

I used two USB connectors when I was programming the Unicorn LCD demo. I've also found switchmode USB wall warts 1000ma @ 5V

Perhaps will have high noise level and demand additional external smoothing

 

[blueroomelectronics]

Perhaps will have high noise level and demand additional external smoothing

The wall adapters work fine, and cheap too. Very handy.
**broken link removed**