PIC programer

Krumlink · Jul 30, 2008

Of course david you are saying that "this one is fine" when you have zero experience, and as apposed of listening to experienced members you rather waste money. Getting a PICkit2 or Junebug makes more sense.

colin mac · Jul 30, 2008

blueroomelectronics said:
It's just a JDM programmer with a FT232 and ZIF socket.

And ICSP.

Probably best to go with the PICkit2 clone though since it's compatible with Microchip's software.

davidbball13 · Jul 30, 2008

futz said:
That's just the thing. JDM's very often just plain don't work. We get messages in this forum constantly from people who can't get JDM programmers to work. They were designed long ago for old fashioned computers. Computers have changed. JDM's sometimes work, but very often not on modern computers.

And we're giving you excellent advice for the best way to get started. A few cables, connectors, crystals/caps are very very cheap. The crystal & caps are not really necessary on most PICs, as they mostly have internal oscillators. PICs are cheap too.

That 16F84A is an antique. Better to start with a more modern chip.

Buy a JDM if you want, but don't be surprised if it won't work and you end up scrapping it and buying something better anyway. You won't get your money back from an Ebay seller.

For an experimenter, programming PICs in a ZIF or standard IC socket like this thing sucks! It's a horrible way to work. You program your chip, pry it out and plug it into your target circuit, find out it doesn't work, pry it out, plug it into the programmer, make your change, pry it out and plug it into your target circuit, find out it doesn't work, pry it out, plug it into the programmer, make your change, pry it out and plug it into your target circuit, find out it doesn't work, pry it out, plug it into the programmer, make your change, pry it out and plug it into your target circuit, find out it doesn't work, pry it out, plug it into the programmer, make your change... Hundreds and thousands of times! It's slow and tedious. The pins on the chip wear out and break off.

With ICSP you have a simple 5-pin connector on your target circuit with a cable to the programmer. When your program doesn't work, you make your change and hit a couple keys or mouse clicks to reprogram the chip and test again. Simple and quick.

And another huge badness with the JDM - no debugging. Hardware debugging is something that, once you've tried it, you wonder how you ever got along without it. PICkit 2 and ICD2 programmers do debugging, working with the MPLAB IDE software to make finding out what went wrong with your code vastly easier than doing it without a debugger.

ok i got it. so this one
**broken link removed**

is usb, has a zif socket, has an ICSP cable, and is not JDM. and i could go and get a few PICs from jameco. so I think I will get this one. one more question.
what programs will i use to write the .hex (or linux equivalent) and one to program the pic

davidbball13 · Jul 30, 2008

Krumlink said:
Of course david you are saying that "this one is fine" when you have zero experience, and as apposed of listening to experienced members you rather waste money. Getting a PICkit2 or Junebug makes more sense.

i did not say that i sayed ( i think or i ment) it looks fine i just did not know that it being suckish that it flat out does not work. ok brah'.

davidbball13 · Jul 30, 2008

colin mac said:
And ICSP.

Probably best to go with the PICkit2 clone though since it's compatible with Microchip's software.

yeah but will the microchip software be available for linux

AllVol · Jul 30, 2008

davidbball13 said:
i did not say that i sayed ( i think or i ment) it looks fine i just did not know that it being suckish that it flat out does not work. ok brah'.

Here's another idea if you go with PICkit 2: You can get your chips free from Microchip through their sample program. Since I got my PICkit, I have received 12F509, 12F693, 16F505, 16F688,16F88,16F248A,16F876A and a spare 16F690 through the generosity of Microchip. Also, I have had to buy no crystals or caps, since most come with INTOSC. The 16F876A I am running on EXTRC.

Zero cost, young man.

futz · Jul 30, 2008

davidbball13 said:
ok i got it. so this one
**broken link removed**

is usb, has a zif socket, has an ICSP cable, and is not JDM. and i could go and get a few PICs from jameco. so I think I will get this one. one more question.
what programs will i use to write the .hex (or linux equivalent) and one to program the pic

I'd stay far, far away from that thing. It's a copy of a DIY K150 programmer, which is almost totally unsupported these days. I own one. It sits in the junk box now. Useless!

It was great (very very slow though) when it was new in 2001 or 2002, but the company no longer wants to support it, so no more updates. It won't program many PICs, especially the newer models. And it won't do debugging. Period.

For the same money you can get a modern PICkit 2 or clone. Awesome support, from the company that makes the chips, and debugging! What's not to like?

futz · Jul 30, 2008

davidbball13 said:
yeah but will the microchip software be available for linux

MPLAB won't work for me with Wine. But there is a pretty good alpha-stage program called Piklab that works reasonably well. No debugging for PICkit 2's yet though.

And SourceBoost BoostC works perfect with Wine!

Eventually Piklab will be a nice program. Already it's amazing considering how young the project is. Right now it's useable, but doesn't really hold up in comparison to MPLAB. I'm a Linux guy, but I keep one Windoze box for microcontroller programming because the best tools are all Windows. Sad but true.

davidbball13 · Jul 30, 2008

futz said:
I'd stay far, far away from that thing. It's a copy of a DIY K150 programmer, which is almost totally unsupported these days. I own one. It sits in the junk box these days. Useless!

It was great when it was new in 2002 or 2003, but the company no longer wants to support it, so no more updates. It won't program many PICs, especially the newer models. And it won't do debugging. Period.

For the same money you can get a modern PICkit 2 or clone. Awesome support, from the company that makes the chips! Debugging. What's not to like?

alright looks like im getting a pickit2
this one
**broken link removed**

and i will get a few pics

davidbball13 · Jul 30, 2008

futz said:
MPLAB won't work for me with Wine. But there is a pretty good alpha-stage program called Piklab that works reasonably well. No debugging for PICkit 2's yet though. And BoostC works perfect with Wine!

Eventually it'll be a nice program. Already it's amazing considering how young the project is. Right now it's useable, but doesn't really hold up in comparison to MPLAB. I'm a Linux guy, but I keep one Windoze box for microcontroller programming because the best tools are all Windows. Sad but true.

sounds great if i need linux pic programing questions........... i will ask you. what distro are you running. i have linux mint on my ibm t41 i had ubuntu but im really feeling linux mint.

futz · Jul 30, 2008

davidbball13 said:
alright looks like im getting a pickit2
this one
**broken link removed**

and i will get a few pics

There it is! I was looking for that one. Comes with your ICSP cables too. Price is a tad high, but ok.

futz · Jul 30, 2008

davidbball13 said:
what distro are you running. i have linux mint on my ibm t41 i had ubuntu but im really feeling linux mint.

I have one Mint box, but I'm almost totally an Ubuntu guy these days (they're the same thing anyway). Once I finish tuning Mint to suit myself it looks/acts exactly like my Ubuntu box anyway, so why bother? Same goes for pretty much every distro I use though. So lately I just don't try the other ones and stick to the one I know - Ubuntu.

I used to use Fedora a lot, but I've been underwhelmed by the last few releases - not so good. Used Suse and Mandriva a bit - never liked either one. Used Sabayon some - not too bad. Puppy and Damn Small Linux a bit. Some others I can't think of right now...

futz · Jul 30, 2008

davidbball13 said:
one more question.
what programs will i use to write the .hex (or linux equivalent) and one to program the pic

Hex is hex. Doesn't matter whether you work in windoze, linux or mac. The standard output file for PICs is good old Intel hex.

In Windows you use the same IDE that you used to write the program, and that you do your debugging with, to program the PIC. MPLAB, the 800 pound gorilla of PIC IDE's.

In Linux you might use Piklab or one of the command line programs to program the PIC.

All things considered, you'd be best off to set up a modest Windows box for microcontroller programming. It doesn't need to be anything earth shaking. I used an old freebie dumpster-found P4 Celeron 1.7MHz (Oops! GHz!) for a long time. Worked well enough. Recently I replaced it with a big fast modern box, which is total overkill for what I do with it. But I never wait - for anything!

Krumlink · Jul 30, 2008

Megahertz? Do you mean Gigahertz?

Why not just buy a Junebug? Jeez

futz · Jul 30, 2008

Krumlink said:
Megahertz? Do you mean Gigahertz?

Oops! Ya, gigahertz. 1700MHz, that is.

davidbball13 · Jul 31, 2008

i dont see a pin out or the names of the pins of the ICSP cable on the pickit2. what are some recommended pics for beginners. i would like osme of all sizes

futz · Jul 31, 2008

davidbball13 said:
i dont see a pin out or the names of the pins of the ICSP cable on the pickit2. what are some recommended pics for beginners. i would like some of all sizes

Pin 1 - VPP - To the MCLR pin on the chip. Don't forget to put a 33K or so pullup resistor on MCLR too (not critical - anything from 10K to 33K is ok).
Pin 2 - 5V - To VDD on your target circuit.
Pin 3 - Ground - To Ground on your target circuit
Pin 4 - PGD - To the PGD pin on the PIC
Pin 5 - PGC - To the PGC pin on the PIC

Get a 12F683, 16F88, 18F1320, 18F2550, 18F4550 or 4620. That gives you a bit of a range of different chips in different sizes with different peripherals. Other people will suggest some others probably. Whatever. Once you learn one, the rest are very similar. The PIC product line is very standardized. They mostly just have more or fewer onboard peripheral modules.

Get a 4MHz and a 20MHz crystal and a few 22pF ceramic disc capacitors. Get a dozen or so 0.1uF ceramic caps and the same number of 100uF electrolytics (and maybe a few 10uF). Some 33K (dozen), 10K (dozen), 4.7K (dozen), 1.2K (dozen), 1K (25), 330 (50) and 180 (25) ohm resistors is good to start with. If you buy these in 200-quantity or better you'll get a big price break. Get some 5mm LEDs - red, green, yellow, blue, whatever you want. A couple 10K trimpots with leads suitable for plugging into a breadboard. Some pin header. Some IDC connectors and an old 40-conductor IDE cable or a floppy cable to rip up and make programming cables out of. Some 2-row header pins and some IDC male headers to make breadboard ICSP adapters out of. A **broken link removed** or two (or more) and **broken link removed** (or make your own). A roll of 30ga wire-wrap wire is useful for projects, but get a roll of something more like 26ga or 24ga for breadboard wires (30ga is too thin). A decent soldering iron and some small-guage rosin-core solder and a can of rosin paste flux too. That's a good start. What have I forgotten? Probably a few things...

Krumlink · Jul 31, 2008

Futz your list sounds really good.
What language will you be using?

davidbball13 · Jul 31, 2008

futz said:
Pin 1 - VPP - To the MCLR pin on the chip. Don't forget to put a 33K or so pullup resistor on MCLR too (not critical - anything from 4.7K to 33K is ok).
Pin 2 - 5V - To VDD on your target circuit.
Pin 3 - Ground - To Ground on your target circuit
Pin 4 - PGD - To the PGD pin on the PIC
Pin 5 - PGC - To the PGC pin on the PIC

Get a 12F683, 16F88, 18F1320, 18F2550, 18F4550 or 4620. That gives you a bit of a range of different chips in different sizes with different peripherals. Other people will suggest some others probably. Whatever. Once you learn one, the rest are very similar. The PIC product line is very standardized. They mostly just have more or fewer onboard peripheral modules.

Get a 4MHz and a 20MHz crystal and a few 22pF ceramic disc capacitors. Get a dozen or so 0.1uF ceramic caps and the same number of 100uF electrolytics (and maybe a few 10uF). Some 33K (dozen), 10K (dozen), 4.7K (dozen), 1.2K (dozen), 1K (25), 330 (50) and 180 (25) ohm resistors is good to start with. If you buy these in 200-quantity or better you'll get a big price break. Get some 5mm LEDs - red, green, yellow, blue, whatever you want. A couple 10K trimpots with leads suitable for plugging into a breadboard. Some pin header. Some IDC connectors and an old 40-conductor IDE cable or a floppy cable to rip up and make programming cables out of. Some 2-row header pins and some IDC male headers to make breadboard ICSP adapters out of. A **broken link removed** or two (or more) and **broken link removed** (or make your own). A roll of 30ga wire-wrap wire is useful for projects, but get a roll of something more like 26ga or 24ga for breadboard wires (30ga is too thin). A decent soldering iron and some small-guage rosin-core solder and a can of rosin paste flux too. That's a good start. What have I forgotten? Probably a few things...

i have just about everything on the list except for the crystals and some of the caps. but do i need the program cables it it comes with one

jimmythefool · Jul 31, 2008

I think all of those listed PIC's have internal oscillators David, so you can get started without the crystals.. I never use them myself, but its down to personal needs/preferences I guess

Jim

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