PIC or ATMEL

[futz]

Did we read the same thread? He said it was great, you said it was great, neither of you said anything about the processor.

Doesn't this count?

The instruction set is no more difficult than PIC - really it's probably easier. The architecture is simpler to understand. None of that freaky banked memory. Lots of registers to use (like the newer 16-bit PICs) - not just one W.

I was just trying to debunk a bunch of posts badmouthing AVRs with outdated information in them. I don't want to get into a religious PIC/AVR argument. I like tinkering with both equally.

For a forum that has

All controllers are welcome

at the top of the page, this place is awful close to being a PIC-only forum.

 

[3v0]

futz,

Did I say one bad thing about AVR? Had he been using AVR I would have suggested that he stay with AVR.

The point is that AdamSoft does not have a lot of experience. It would be better for him to learn more about what he is already using then switch. I had him convinced of this. Am I wrong ?

EDIT: About the A vrs B debate in general. They both work. You can learn either. If he were having gobs of trouble with the PIC instructions maybe it would make sense to switch to AVR. I do not see that as the case. Once he switches to C it makes even less difference.

 

[futz]

Did I say one bad thing about AVR? Had he been using AVR I would have suggested that he stay with AVR.

Fair enough. I shot my mouth off more at the somewhat anti-anything-not-PIC tone I read here fairly often than at you in particular. Sorry about that.

The point is that AdamSoft does not have a lot of experience. It would be better for him to learn more about what he is already using then switch. I had him convinced of this. Am I wrong ?

I think there's no harm in AtomSoft tinkering with whatever tickles his fancy. He's a quick study. Exposure to different CPU designs is a good thing, I think. Gives you some perspective on how all this stuff works and the differences (and similarities) between different CPU designs. Anyway, he's likely going to do whatever he wants no matter what we say.

 

[AtomSoft]

Yep futz is correct and just about the only one here who i thing can remember without reading the name AtomSoft it has a "t" not a "d" and it does mean something ... My name is Jason not adam so it does get bothersome. But its ok i guess. As futz was saying

Exposure to different CPU designs is a good thing, I think. Gives you some perspective on how all this stuff works and the differences (and similarities) between different CPU designs

That is how i feel. I understand the need to learn 1 thing but no one ever said i had learn 1 thing at a time. I like keeping busy and when im stuck on something i leave it and do something else too clear my mind (soon to be AVR) so when i get back to it i have a new perspective and ca complete the project. (or ask for help lol)

I do thank you for voicing your opinions, thats why i asked.. but remember and opinion is a nay your idea of it not mines. I find AVRs very interesting especially because alot of people dont talk about it here. I love a challenge (as long as it doesnt cost me thousands of dollars lol

 

[AtomSoft]

I just made the MPLAB Dockable and this is way better... looks cleaner and sexy now lol

 

[futz]

I just made the MPLAB Dockable and this is way better... looks cleaner and sexy now lol

Ya, the jumble of little windows forever hiding under each other used to bug me a bit. I like it docked. You can quickly shrink the docks to the sides/bottom for more programming space by grabbing their edges and dragging them smaller (out of the way).

 

[futz]

Atmel has a new toy. The Raven 2.4 GHz Evaluation and Starter Kit. It's a bit more expensive than the Butterfly. About $107 at Digikey. But you get two cards and a USB stick that can all communicate with each other, so not so steep I guess.

Digikey doesn't have any in stock.

 

[futz]

AVRs don't debug thru the ICSP cable like PICs.

Used to be correct. It isn't anymore. My AVR knowledge is out of date. DebugWire uses only the reset pin (you know it as MCLR on PICs) for debugging. So it works fine on the ISP cable.

http://www.scienceprog.com/what-is-debugwire-interface/

I got out my Dragon and breadboarded up an ATMega88 and some LEDs to play. Oh man, it's been a long time! I was so confused! After an hour or two of being very lost, I got it together and am up to speed enough to start going beyond blinky programs again. At least the assembly language still looks familiar to me...

AVR ISP connectors are pinned as 2x3 IDC. They're a bit weird to find, but I have the Digikey and Mouser numbers if you need them. Unlike the nice 5 pins you need for PIC using one half of a 2x5 connector, meaning you can plug directly into a breadboard, AVR uses all 6 pins. It's SPI, so MOSI, MISO, SCK and Reset, 5V and ground. To plug that into a breadboard means you need an adapter to put 3 pins on each side of the center divider*. I currently have a Technological Arts 40-pin adapter on there for now. It's huge but lets me get going without sloppy wires hangin all over the place.

*Or maybe go to a 2x6 IDC and rearrange the wires all in a row. You'd still need some cables with 2x3 on both ends for other stuff.

 

[AtomSoft]

im used to making my own connectors anyway i would make something like this:
https://www.technologicalarts.ca/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=38_42&products_id=169

but just pull 4 pins out and poof! have a 6 pin lol or just use (2) 1x3 single row headers and glue together lol and make my own but i just found
this :

https://wiredworld.tripod.com/tronics/atmel_isp.html

thats exactly what i would do.

 

[donniedj]

Never listen to anyones comparison on speed. The speed of all major microcontrollers are an over kill and increase ever 6-months to a year. People are not keeping up with the latest versions of their microcontroller manufacturer of choice. The whole Clock/4 for the PIC brand is legacy is Clock/2 these days. 24HJ series at 40 mips no external clock is just above and beyond. Single cycle 16 bit multiplication is above and beyond. And stop with the kits already, sorry blueroom. Don't just a micro by its kit but by its core.

 

[Krumlink]

Why are you switching over to AVR? You have a junebug, a AWESOME PIC PROGRAMMER and tutor, and you suddenly switch over to AVR? IT doesnt make sense why switch when you were really gettin in depth with PIC. I would stick to PIC, because for one you have a Junebug, and you have a much larger support system for PIC.

 

[futz]

Why are you switching over to AVR? You have a junebug, a AWESOME PIC PROGRAMMER and tutor, and you suddenly switch over to AVR? IT doesnt make sense why switch when you were really gettin in depth with PIC. I would stick to PIC, because for one you have a Junebug, and you have a much larger support system for PIC.

He's not switching, any more than I'm switching. He just wants a look. Nothin wrong with seeing what the competition has to offer. Limiting yourself to just one MCU type is just that - limiting. Try em all. See what they're like. Why not?

 

[Krumlink]

Yes, but i would wait until he is able to easily write code for any PIC processor. Once he is advanced with PIC he could start using AVR. Using PIC and AVR at the same time might get him confused.

My opinon would be to stick to what your doing until you really get the hang of it.

 

[futz]

Yes, but i would wait until he is able to easily write code for any PIC processor. Once he is advanced with PIC he could start using AVR. Using PIC and AVR at the same time might get him confused.

I don't think he's that easily confused.

 

[Krumlink]

But he already has everything he needs for PIC, why change/do something different???

 

[futz]

But he already has everything he needs for PIC, why change/do something different???

Why the hell not?

Variety is the spice of life. Hell, try Freescale too. Lovely MCU's.

 

[Krumlink]

Do you Really need to try something different when you already got all the resources for pic?

Its like you have a billion dollars invested in Product A. Everybody knows and loves Product A. Why change when you know that they are going to keep loving product a (lol coke cola)

 

[futz]

Do you Really need to try something different when you already got all the resources for pic?

He who dies with the most toys wins! Get all the resources for AVR too. It's not like it's a lot of money.

Its like you have a billion dollars invested in Product A. Everybody knows and loves Product A. Why change when you know that they are going to keep loving product a (lol coke cola)

It isn't even a little like that. You have an interest in microcontrollers. You've invested some time and money in Product A. You'd like to see how Product B does things, so you invest some time and money to try that too. And maybe Product C and D and E too. It's not that tough.

And not "everybody" knows or loves Product A. There's plenty of people happily using Products B and C and D and E and ...

Wouldn't you like to see what they all work like? Try em all!

 

[3v0]

It isn't even a little like that....

It can be exactly like that.

In my collage days I recall checking under couch cushions and digging through the car for a few cents to buy a pack of resistors from radio shack. These days I am somewhat less impoverished I am sure there are others who need to watch the budget.

EDIT:

Wouldn't you like to see what they all work like? Try em all!

I have worked on my share of uC's. After a while the mostly look the same. For a new person it is better to learn a good deal about his first uC prior to learning another. There is a lot to learn in addition to the processor core. Once the first is mastered adding a 2nd or 3rd vendor to your abilities may make some sense.

A few decades ago when uC's were less mature and less powerful the choice of vendor could possibly make or break a project. These days just about all the vendors have a processor that can fit most any need. My advice is to choose a vendor and stick with it unless you have a real need that requires you to switch. Take it for what it is worth.

 

[AtomSoft]

Ok why is everyone basically assuming i am stupid or something? I know its difficult to learn more than 1 at a time and thats why i want to i like challenges as stated many times before. I love pic and im not "SWITCHING" i love my junebug and will get more from bill soon...

Everyone has there own ways. Im not like everyone i dont live in the same places like everyone. I love coca cola.. But pepsi is my first choice. I also love grape ... anything grape and banana.. if there wasnt variety and a option to have it all at once then i wouldnt be in this field.

Im no expert but being a expert is never a qualification to try something else new as 3v0 says.... I dont have to know 1 thing in this case to start another. Its like learning VB then C++ there is not much gain from knowing VB then switching to c++ ..... Just APIs and small things no biggie..

Krumlink... you said:
"Do you Really need to try something different when you already got all the resources for pic?"

my answer is hell yes... since i have all i need for now on pics. i can compare with i might need with avrs... I can make a conclusion on what i prefer and focus more on it than another.... As i know there is no Junebug for AVRs what if im the guy to make it?

Ill be Jay for JuneAVRs and Bill will be well..... Bill for JuneBugs.. why not have more than 1? I would not want to live in a place where i have only 1 choice or am expecting to make choices based on popularity....

I love sweat pants and im a electrician and i wear sweats to work and have no problem.... no one can say a thing because its my choice and as long as the job gets done its NP.


donniedj ...

I kind of agree but... i mean this .. but... A kit is whats going to also sell something. Just because something is FAST and what i would call the SHI** doesnt mean im going to understand it at all and therefor not even want it.

I want a kit mostly because a kit comes with valuable information and examples to get started on new things and thats what i look for when buying something.

Even PICs ... i go online and if i see a pic i seem to like i google it to see what info is available on it besides a normal datasheet. This is done so i know i wont waste to much time trying to understand something. If the info is there .. even if its a small amount i will get it just because its POSSIBLE!..


futz.... you rock!

Anyone know good tutorials on routing in Eagle? Im trying my best not to do to many vias but ahh... And vias seem to be on the part not the actual board...