PIC or ATMEL

[AtomSoft]

I was thinking about also jumping into ATMEL.

I know this wouldnt be a smart idea since im new to pic and might get them mixed up but ATMEL looks very interesting.

The Atmel AVR® STK500 is only $90 and looks like a nice starter kit.

Any Thoughts?

 

[petrv]

I have practical experience only with PICs but from what I know AVRs are faster and it is easier to write software for them (more friendly instruction set and there is a free C compiler), but on the other side PICs are more friendly from the hardware point of view when it comes to programming and debugging. You will need an ISP programmer and if you want to debug also JTAG debugger but only some ATMEGAs have JTAG, the new ATTINYs have DebugWire proprietary debug interface which can be used only with the original JTAG Mk. 2 debugger which is expensive. Also if you program some fuses by mistake you can get stuck without parallel programmer. Compare this with PICs where you have for example the PICkit 2 or ICD2 which is both programmer and debugger, costs 1/10th of the price of the JTAG Mk.2 and also its schematics and firmware is publicly available.
Petr

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

Both are fine, but the PIC has a LOT more support, and is far more popular.

A lot depends what you're programmed in the past, PIC's are popular because they are easier to learn (smaller instruction set), but if you're coming from Z80 or 8088 then I would advise AVR, as it's more familiar. I came from 6502, and PIC is easier from that than AVR is (and AVR's didn't exist then anyway).

If a free C compiler is important to you?, you can use the higher end 18F series PIC's, which have a free C compiler.

 

[3v0]

You have received some excellent help here regarding PIC chips.

You can do as you please but, it does not make sense to switch from "PIC to ATMEL" or "ATMEL to PIC" without a good reason.

What about the ATMEL chips do you find interesting? What would be the up side to switching? What would the down side be?

 

[AtomSoft]

Oh i never said i was switching just jumping into it also* meaning staying on PIC but also going into ATMEL. The main reason is i like to dab in a bunch of things. Like my professions...

PC Repair
Cell Phone Repair
Washer/Dryer Repair
Electrician
Carpenter

Im sure there are many more but those are my top most skills....

 

[AtomSoft]

Oh yeah i love pics and want to thank all for all the help i got and will recieve.. im saying i am sticking to PICs of course but i like variety Thats all

 

[AtomSoft]

I have practical experience only with PICs but from what I know AVRs are faster and it is easier to write software for them (more friendly instruction set and there is a free C compiler), but on the other side PICs are more friendly from the hardware point of view when it comes to programming and debugging. You will need an ISP programmer and if you want to debug also JTAG debugger but only some ATMEGAs have JTAG, the new ATTINYs have DebugWire proprietary debug interface which can be used only with the original JTAG Mk. 2 debugger which is expensive. Also if you program some fuses by mistake you can get stuck without parallel programmer. Compare this with PICs where you have for example the PICkit 2 or ICD2 which is both programmer and debugger, costs 1/10th of the price of the JTAG Mk.2 and also its schematics and firmware is publicly available.
Petr

same for avr i think

mkII Programming Kit is only $36
http://www.mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?Msid=55650000&Mkw=ATAVRISP2

also
AVR ISP Schematics
http://www.atmel.com/dyn/products/tools_card.asp?tool_id=2726

also
AVRISP mkII In-System Programmer
http://www.atmel.com/dyn/products/tools_card.asp?tool_id=3808

Why would you need schematics if its a ISP? for $40 you cant lose just cant make your own lol

 

[petrv]

Sure ... but the thing is that AVRISP is *NOT* a debugger (unlike PICKit 2 which is both) - it is only a programmer. If you want to debug you need AVR JTAG ICE.
The original AVR JTAG ICE has clones but is only for some ATMEGAs. The AVR JTAG ICE Mk.2 supports also DebugWire but is ten times more expensive....

 

[3v0]

Oh yeah i love pics and want to thank all for all the help i got and will recieve.. im saying i am sticking to PICs of course but i like variety Thats all

As I said you can do as you please.

IMHO for the most part you would be doing what you have already done (or can do) with PICs. Use the time to learn somthing new.

 

[AtomSoft]

lol ok i guess ill stick to pics didnt know about the debugger part of atmel that sucks. PICs it is lol.
3v0 that makes sense "Use the time to learn something new." Im actually waiting for a 16x2 LCD then when i learn that i will get into GLCD which i hear is nice and isnt to hard just a little trick with toggling something on then off.

Thanks guys!

EDIT: I cant wait to get into higher end PICs i want to start of meduim first lol Junebug is great! I might think about trying to recreate it but in my own way. I hope bill wont mind. I wont be selling it of course but schematics will be freely available as well as source. Thanks again

 

[futz]

Atmel AVRs are great, but don't bother with the STK-500. It's OLD! (I have one). Get a **broken link removed** instead. (I have one too). It's a much more modern design. Like a PICkit 2 on steroids. **broken link removed**, and works with USB. And it's inexpensive.

It does JTAG and debugWIRE debugging. AVRs don't debug thru the ICSP cable like PICs. They use JTAG or debugWIRE. JTAG is most common. The STK-500 won't do JTAG or dW as far as I know.

And, so you don't have to have two cables connected to do debugging and programming, you can program the chip via the JTAG connector.

So don't let these PIC guys scare you off AVRs. They're fun to tinker with too. The instruction set is no more difficult than PIC - really it's probably easier. The architecture is simpler to understand. None of that freaky banked memory. Lots of registers to use (like the newer 16-bit PICs) - not just one W. Nothin wrong with them at all. PICs are just more popular, and not necessarily because they're better.

 

[AtomSoft]

Atmel AVRs are great, but don't bother with the STK-500. It's OLD! (I have one). Get a **broken link removed** instead. (I have one too). It's a much more modern design. Like a PICkit 2 on steroids. **broken link removed**, and works with USB. And it's inexpensive.

It does JTAG and debugWIRE debugging. AVRs don't debug thru the ICSP cable like PICs. They use JTAG or degugWIRE. JTAG is most common. The STK-500 won't do JTAG or dW as far as I know.

And, so you don't have to have two cables connected to do debugging and programming, you can program the chip via the JTAG connector.

So don't let these PIC guys scare you off AVRs. They're fun to tinker with too. The instruction set is no more difficult than PIC - really it's probably easier. The architecture is simpler to understand. None of that freaky banked memory. Lots of registers to use (like the newer 16-bit PICs) - not just one W. Nothin wrong with them at all. PICs are just more popular, and not necessarily because they're better.

This was what i was expecting to hear. I hear lots of good things about AVRs. That AVR Dragon is only $50 + s/h close to a Junebug price which is very affordable.

I found this which has some better pictures and nice information including something with a zif socket on Page 18

"To make it even more flexible and allow for narrow DIP packages, a ZIF (Zero Insertion
Force) DIP socket has been added in the picture above. Additional sockets can be bought
from third party vendors to support MLF/QFN, TQFP, SOIC etc packages. (Link:
http://www.atmel.com/products/AVR/thirdparty.asp#adapters )"

**broken link removed**

 

[blueroomelectronics]

You've barely scratched the surface of the PIC, if you want something very powerful look at the dsPIC30F4013, it's a 16bit micro. Or you might want to try the 24FJ16GA002 as it has debug support.

AVRfreaks is an AVR forum.

 

[futz]

I found this which has some better pictures and nice information including something with a zif socket on Page 18

You'll have a use for a ZIF about... almost never. ICSP is much better for most of the stuff you're going to do. Once in a while a ZIF is handy, but you won't use it much.

 

[Salgat]

Prior to purchasing the STK500 my only experience with microcontrollers was the 68HC11 from one semester of microprocessors. I learned nearly every peripheral function and was programming in assembly on the AVR with proficiency after one week. The AVR is extremely easy to use, has an amazing IDE with a simulator in it that is all free, and has a great community at AVRfreaks. I absolutely love the AVR, and my professor who has worked mainly with PICs and the 68HC11 seemed impressed with what the AVR had to offer. I say go with the AVR, it's powerful, intuitive, and has a buttload of cheap and free support behind it.

Heres a picture of my LCD program running in the free IDE.
http://salgat.googlepages.com/simulation.JPG

 

[AtomSoft]

yeah futz i forgot about ISP lol Im not planning on switching just adding it to my list of things to learn loli will try my best to purchase AVR related products with in this month. .. Nice salgat .. i thnk i like that program layout over MPLAB.. (shh! dont tell no one lol)

 

[futz]

i thnk i like that program layout over MPLAB.. (shh! dont tell no one lol)

You can make MPLAB look very similar (maybe almost identical). The trick is to make your windows dockable. I run mine like this:

Sometimes I'll move parts to other positions, but that's the usual layout.

To make a window dockable, left click in the upper left corner and select Dockable. Then if you drag it to any edge it snaps (docks) to it. You have to dock things in certain orders to get them how you want.

Figuring out how to dock them takes a little practice. At first you'll be baffled by its behaviour. Play with it till it makes sense.

 

[futz]

Hey AtomSoft! If you're ordering a Dragon and some AVRs, consider ordering yourself an AVR Butterfly demo board as a very cool geek toy as well. Only about $23 for a board with a Mega169PV, an LCD, a joystick, a temperature sensor, piezo beeper and other stuff.

Here's mine:

As you can see, I haven't done a thing with it yet. Still stone stock. One of these days I'm gonna solder in some headers and get programming on that thing. (The battery isn't supposed to hang out the side like that. I was having problems with the contacts.)

Ecros Tech have nice carrier board for it, as well as a nice Dragon add-on board.

 

[AtomSoft]

futz you never seize to amaze me. Thats cool all that on 1 board for $23.

 

[3v0]

This was what i was expecting to hear. I hear lots of good things about AVRs.

Did we read the same thread? He said it was great, you said it was great, neither of you said anything about the processor.