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Phase delay question

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sebosfato

New Member
I'm Designing a PLL with cd4046 Ic to control a resonant transformer. I have a doubt at this point because i think there could be a delay or phase difference between the signal i'm applying on the transformer and the signal i'm getting on the feedback. So i would like to design a phase delay witch is independent of frequency. As the feedback signal is 50% square wave i know that i can have a 180° phase delay by using a not gate. But how can i have a 90° phase delay? Or 45°? Or it's possible to have a variable phase delay from 0° to 360° witch is independent of frequency? I'm working from 1Hz to 100kHz.

Thanks
 
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MikeMl

Well-Known Member
Most Helpful Member
Where is the phase delay? The phase comparator in most PLLs puts the VCO in phase quadrature (90 degrees) with respect to the signal being locked to. Is that what you are talking about?
 

sebosfato

New Member
Thank you Mike for answering,

Yes it should at 90° with the 1° comparator and 0° with the second one. I want to find a way to delay the feedback line, because as there are many steps for it until it get the phase comparator will be useful to change slightly the phase delaying it before go into pin 14. From 0 to 180° should be ok. Because i used a switch that change the phase coming from feedback between 0 and 180° than i just need something to adjust it again between 0 and 180°. to have 0 360° adjustment.

There is a way to do it ?
 
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MikeMl

Well-Known Member
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Is there a frequency divider between the VCO and one input of the phase comparator?

Rather than playing 20 questions, why don't you post a block diagram, including where you want the variable delay.
 
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Nigel Goodwin

Super Moderator
Most Helpful Member
Is there a frequency divider between the VCO and one input of the phase comparator?

Rather than playing 20 questions, why don't you post a block diagram, including where you want the variable delay.
It's for a silly HHO generator gizmo - the diagram won't help you a deal, but if you check his posts he's posted various versions.
 

sebosfato

New Member
Here you see the diagrams i would like to put the delay between the H from pulse indicator circuit and H on the Phase lock circuit.

There are 3 dividers (4017) divide by 10 so i have 1hz to 100hz, 100hz to 1000, and 1000 to 10Khz ranges. The Resonant scanning circuit sends a 30hz sine wave like from 2v to 4v on pin 9 (F) and when it locks the logic gates stop the sine wave to let it remain in lock. Its working and locking at 1,8khz. I'm not sure its absolutely necessary the delay line but thinking about what happen there i think is a important parameter to adjust. Using the 1° comparator you can make it to lock far from the (center frequency 90°) to have a different phase. The 2° comparator lock at 0°.

Any way Nigel its not silly.
 

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sebosfato

New Member
Har still at it. Guess you don't want to know why it's pointless / silly / a waste of time, effort & money.
Scientific proof debunking the "run your car on water" scams

What happend over at Free Energy Open Source Research Forum OverUnity.com They got plenty of folks trying to build these things.
Silly is to repeat the history. To listen or read and take it as true. How can you talk about something that you didn't even tried?

Anyway let me waste my time and money, don't worry about it. Its being more than 3 years full time of study to get the point i'm now and believe or not i got it working already.
 
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blueroomelectronics

Well-Known Member
Here's something from the Physics forums about resonant transformers & HHO
new hho generator design
The energy you get from burning the hydrogen and oxygen in your Ford is less than the electrical energy you invested in the electrolysis separation. You do understand that, right?
Re: new hho generator design
Reddevil,

There is no such thing as HHO. There is no such thing as resonance electrolysis of HHO. There is no such thing as over-unity energy from resonance HHO generation. It's all a hoax and, I'm sad to say, somebody has fooled you. Don't be disheartened; it's happened to a lot of people. The scam is very sophisticated.

Please don't put one of these on your car. It is roughly the equivalent of pouring several cc of sulfuric acid into the engine, drilling a couple of random holes in the throttle body, smashing the lambda sensor with a hammer and inviting the state police to write you a huge ticket for tampering with pollution controls.

The science and the engineering are very well known. All honest, knowledgeable people agree these don't work. There is just enough of a grain of truth in there to make it plausible - if you're running natural gas in your car, a little hydrogen helps, though probably not at today's prices.
 

tcmtech

Banned
Most Helpful Member
Silly is to repeat the history. To listen or read and take it as true. How can you talk about something that you didn't even tried?

Anyway let me waste my time and money, don't worry about it. Its being more than 3 years full time of study to get the point I'm now and believe or not i got it working already.
To continually repeat history is stupid I agree 100%

To say you have something and want others to believe without showing proof is also stupid. If you want the non believers and skeptics like me off your back and on your side plus want this proof you have to be used to make the world better just show the standard issue parts lists, schematics, pictures and a reasonable written description of of how it works as your proof of concept.;)
If you cant or wont your repeating a common history we are all to familiar with here. Bull **** 101. We have loads of hands on experience with it and thusly can see it from a long ways off!:(

Basically show everyone how to build a working unit! Even just a simple one that will show measurable and record-able numbers as evidence. ;)

Check out my work on GTI design. I didn't give out every single detail of my present and most complex or efficient designs but I did give out enough basics to give a solid proof of concept so others could actually build one! Now look at the threads. people are redesigning and improving it in ways I never even thought about!:)
I am not covetous, jealous or angry when I see new and possibly far better concepts pop up but rather I am delighted to see what I started now paying off and going in all new directions! :)

Just show us scientific how to basics. We will listen. We will test and confirm too! If it does work I promise you will see it grow and become even better! ;)

If your excuse is you dont want to share your work because it will cost you possible financial profits. Your just another greedy business man in a suit or most likely a standard issue con man that uses lies and misconceptions based on useless crap designs that are more foolish junk than workable a system. :mad:

We are not dumb hicks that will blindly follow. Proof is our leader. Give us proof and its likely we can improve on it far more in a month than you can in a decade! ;)

We are not mindless zombies in front of computers but a whole world of engineers, technicians, inventors, fabricators, and scientific researchers combined onto one forum!
That is a combined IQ in the millions with skills that are almost god like when put together! Use that to your advantage. We work for free! What more can you ask for? :confused:
 

sebosfato

New Member
I agree with you. And i'm going to give the exact formula when its done working, don't worry, that will come i just need to construct this prototype and transformers to prove my theory and than when its ready and working i'll share it with you. For you to understand better i'm going to use X-rays too for the ionization of the air and than use that liberated electrons as source of energy(current). No rules of thermodynamics are broken as it is not a close circuit. I'm working hard on this and the schematics of my theory are already on the other thread i made. The infinity circuit. When i have working schematics that prove the theory i will put it here. Now i want to know a way to make this delay. It's going to be part of the circuit as described. The schematics i posted about the pll works and people said it wont work many times(because of this and that). And worked as predicted, i'm going to post it again soon with the right components and pin configuration. When i say i got it working already is because i knew an inventor that have the patent of this working and it uses resonance too in another way but as the parts costs too much and as he said to me there other ways for doing it i'm trying to find another way, more economic. (i can't tell you details about the patent because is not mine and because he didn't gave me all the details. i understood how it works and thats important. Energy come from somewhere. Its not over unity for sure. The only problem as is for every one is the money for example i have no money, but have kind of lucky and many people is helping with wire, cores, parts, discount on X ray tubes , components, free samples,good vibes...


Thanks :)
 
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tcmtech

Banned
Most Helpful Member
Which parts cost too much?
The unobtainium screws and the magical mystery part that makes it work of course!
I am not holding my breath on this subject.

Working HHO system design is sort of like dating. Everybody claims they know someone that succeeded but personal experience shows its just all talk. And just like dating, every time theres talk of action there is just more talk. Sadly false HHO and dating promises get old real fast. :(

If he really wanted help he would only need to tell use what he has built and with what materials. basic configuration and schematics of the power handling circuitry is enough for me to fill in the blanks from there.;)

This dates over so get out and walk. :p
 

sebosfato

New Member
its a special ceramic porous material made of barium dioxide and iron dioxide and manganese dioxide. It cost a lot to make it because it needs special chemic high temperature reaction. It is really efficient it also split the gas and separate it so you have h2 output and o2 output. It split liters of water with few watts. That's not the case. I'm working as i said in a different configuration that is also possible to work second my theory and i'm going to give it a try. It's based on stanley meyer technology of ionization. Van de graff and electrostactic effects and tesla resonant circuits. Why not use the electrons we are pulling out from the air ionizing it. If you ionize 10 liters of oxygen or 1 mole 16g. Taking from it 4 electrons you have 107 Amps.
To split one mole of water you need only 54 amps. Thus you have 1 mole of oxygen and 2 moles of hydrogen. Than using this hydrogen with this ionized oxygen give you a stronger explosion because of the relative equation say when you decrease mass you have more thermal energy. Water have 2,5 times amount of hydrogen per kilogram. Thats why it works second what i think but is all about few time to figure out how to get this amps from ionization to do whatever we want because if you use that 100 amps with 100 volts you have 10Kw. Tesla invented this i think too. When he talked about wireless electricity. People need to have a kind of receiver that resonate with the small signal received and build up high voltages that are able to get this electrons from the air.

This anyway is not the focus of the question? Any idea for the delay?
 
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Mr RB

Well-Known Member
For the delay you can use a 555 timer. :)

...
For you to understand better i'm going to use X-rays too for the ionization of the air and than use that liberated electrons as source of energy(current). No rules of thermodynamics are broken as it is not a close circuit.
...
This is brilliant! Forget the whole HHO side, just concentrate on liberating all the electrons from the air to use as current and the whole world can have free energy from that point onwards.

Nobody will have to mess with hydrogen again.
 

sebosfato

New Member
Hydrogen is the immediate solution for the today cars to still be used until all cars become electric. This way we are using solar energy straight because this atoms when are liberated are re- energized by the sun and ready for reuse.

The universal energy source.

How to use the 555 timer?
do you have a schematic please?
 
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