Liquid Level Measurement/2

[Joe McGivern]

Hello All.

I'm relatively new to this web site,and am amazed by the number of members and the fact that they are world wide.

My background is largely electrical & mechanical but I have limited electronic experience and would like to expand it if possible.

I've posted an item with a simliar heading in **** Chat and had good responses, but I want to pursue further the possibility of doing such a project using ultrasonics.

I saw on another web site a scheme where a Texas Instruments microcontroller (MSP430) is used with some peripheral components including a 2 digit seven segment LCD display to indicate the liquid level in inches. A copy of the programme needed for the microcontroller was included.

If I was successful with the project I would like to make some changes but I need help and advice and there are some questions I will ask first.

(1) Is it likely that an amateur with limited electronics experience would be able to put this type of project together or is the domain of a more professional engineering body.

(2) Is it possible to buy a microcontroller already mounted on a PCB. My understanding is that the microcontroller needed will have numerous minute connections that will require skill if not specialist equipment to solder them in place.

(3) Is there a location where can get advice on the arrangement of the peripheral component parts. I am not even sure at this stage what the parts are, but there will be the transmitter ,reciever,display etc and the ambience will be damp if the unit is relatively close to water.


(4) My programming expertise falls just short of my electronics ability. I did some low level ladder logic on Mitsubishi FX series PLCs. Are there different microcontrollers for specific applications and are the programmes suited to specific controllers.

Thanking you in anticipation.(If you think I'm completely mad,break it to me as gently as possible).


Regards

JMcG

 

[kchriste]

Maybe post a link to the project and we can give you a better idea of it's newbie feasibility....

 

[Joe McGivern]

It may seem a stupid question ,but how do I post a link.

 

[kchriste]

Just copy it from your browsers address bar and paste it into the message box where you type.

 

[Joe McGivern]

link for info on Ultrasonic distance measurement

Thank you kchriste.


I went to google and typed in:-
"ultrasonic distance measurement with the MSP430"

The first option had the following address:-


focus.ti.com/lit/an/slaa136a/slaa136a.pdf



JMcG

 

[kchriste]

s it likely that an amateur with limited electronics experience would be able to put this type of project together or is the domain of a more professional engineering body.

I wouldn't say you'd need to be an engineer, but soldering the 64 pin MPS430 is not for a beginner.... You'd be better off finding a similar project that uses an IC that comes in a DIP type package unless you are really good at soldering small parts. Here's one that uses a 18 pin PIC:
https://www.best-microcontroller-projects.com/pic-sonar.html

Are there different microcontrollers for specific applications and are the programmes suited to specific controllers.

Yes and Yes.

Is it possible to buy a microcontroller already mounted on a PCB. My understanding is that the microcontroller needed will have numerous minute connections that will require skill if not specialist equipment to solder them in place.

Yes, they are called evaluation boards which are expensive and no where near as flexible as the chip on it's own. You could also look for a breakout board for the MPS430 style case (64LQFP I think)...

 

[Joe McGivern]

I had a look at another 64 pin ic and i have to agree, the pins/legs are very fine. Not for me. Ihad a look at the alternative site you suggested and it looks good to me. I may need to re adjust my sights and aim at something less intricate.

If I go for an 18 pin IC, does it have a much lower spec than the others. How can I evaluate the capabilities/limitations.

Programming is another consideration. Please suggest if you can where I might start to find out about it. There is lots of posts in another section dedicated to microcontrollers. I had a look but the mind boggles (and the boggles dont mind).

Thank You kchriste
JMcG

 

[kchriste]

If I go for an 18 pin IC, does it have a much lower spec than the others. How can I evaluate the capabilities/limitations.

You can get pretty powerful micro's in a 18pin dip, but they do suffer from limited IO lines. Not a problem for something like the ultrasonic range finder and actually an advantage if you want to conserve board space. The best way to evaluate various chips is to first know exactly what you want to do with it. Microchips web site has pretty easy to follow charts for various families of PIC chips:
**broken link removed**
8bit family:
https://www.microchip.com/ParamChartSearch/chart.aspx?branchID=1002&mid=10&lang=en&pageId=74

Programming is another consideration. Please suggest if you can where I might start to find out about it. There is lots of posts in another section dedicated to microcontrollers.

There are different chips, all with there own pros and cons. PICs are pretty popular and Nigels site has some good tutorial for learning about PICs:

Now I only mention PICs because that is what I'm familiar with. There are alot of other manufacturers of micros out there also...

 

[Joe McGivern]

I am grateful for your patience kchriste. I'm off to the site you reccommended :-



Hopefully I will be programming PICs in a short time.

Thanks again.

JMcG

 

[Joe McGivern]

I want to get going on the programming act.

(1)Do I build the board shown on the web site? It seems to describe the components quite clearly.

(2)Do I make a list of the components and go to Maplins or RS Components Etc and buy them, put them together and so on.

Or is there a kit I should buy first.

I suspect that the PIC will need to be handled in such a way as not to damage it.


JMcG

 

[kchriste]

(1)Do I build the board shown on the web site? It seems to describe the components quite clearly.

Only if you have a computer with a parallel port (legacy printer port). If not, something like the Inchworm from https://www.blueroomelectronics.com is better and can program a larger selection of PICs.

(2)Do I make a list of the components and go to Maplins or RS Components Etc and buy them, put them together and so on.

You could do that.

Or is there a kit I should buy first.

Nigel's main page has a link to this one used with a parallel port:

Or get the inchworm as noted above.

I suspect that the PIC will need to be handled in such a way as not to damage it.

They are static sensitive like most CMOS devices. Minimize handling and touch something grounded before touching the PIC. This is especially true in winter when you can actually feel the shock. CMOS ICs can still be damaged by the unfelt static discharge so always ground yourself first.

 

[Joe McGivern]

On Nigels site the first pages are thus:- PIC Tutorial main board is described as a PIC 16F628 fitted to veroboard with a 5 volt regulator and 10 pin expansion ports A and B. etc.

Is this the PIC you describe as needing to be programmed from a computer with a paralell port.



I have flicked back and forth through the "first" pages and for different reasons had difficulty to grips with what I need to get started.

I think there is lots of stuff on the hardware page but could I start with say the first 2 or 3 Tutorials and if so what hardware do I need for these first steps.

JMcG

 

[kchriste]

Is this the PIC you describe as needing to be programmed from a computer with a paralell port.

No.... What was specific to the parallel port is the programmer linked here:
https://www.electro-tech-online.com/custompdfs/2007/05/p16pro40-1.pdf
Or here:

The 16F628 PIC can be programmed practicality with any programmer (USB, serial or parallel type) you choose to use.

I think there is lots of stuff on the hardware page but could I start with say the first 2 or 3 Tutorials and if so what hardware do I need for these first steps.

Each tutorial describes, at the beginning, which hardware modules you need for it. You don't have to build them all if you only want to do some of the tutorials. For the first 3 tuts you'd need the; Main Board, Switch Board, LED Board & LCD board.

 

[Joe McGivern]

Hello Again kchriste.

I think you may be reading my mind or you got a bugging device close by.


I've been doing some reading from "Nigels site" Getting ready to order some components. Compiling lists etc.

The foot notes your posts are signed off with are quite accurate and I havent even started to solder yet.


Regards
JMcG

 

[kchriste]

I think you may be reading my mind or you got a bugging device close by.

I did build one of those FM transmitters for that very purpose when I was a kid. Great fun.

The foot notes your posts are signed off with are quite accurate and I havent even started to solder yet.

I change them now and again just to shake things up.

 

[Joe McGivern]

Matrix board, Vero board , is there a difference. If so what do I need to look out for?

I think I've seen "plug in" DIL components. Is the socket they fit in called a zif socket. Is there some merit in considering a socket to fit my prospective PIC or , again am I getting too hasty.

Best Regards
JMcG

 

[kchriste]

Matrix board, Vero board , is there a difference.

Not that I could see. It is possible for different manufacturers to have slightly different trace patterns on their boards; ie power busses etc. It is best to be able to see a picture of the product before ordering on-line if there is any doubt.

I think I've seen "plug in" DIL components. Is the socket they fit in called a zif socket. Is there some merit in considering a socket to fit my prospective PIC or , again am I getting too hasty.

You probably meant DIP components.... A Zif socket is a Zero Insertion Force socket made for 1000's of inserts/removals of chips. They are usually only used on chip programmers and are quite expensive. For normal projects, a plain old cheap ($0.10 to $1.00) DIP socket is fine because the chip may only go in/out 5 times.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

I would consider 'matrix board' a plain board just with holes in it, while veroboard has copper strips connecting the wholes - other manufacturers call it stripboard.