Interfacing Propeller board to Car

[jbalat]

But Watkykjy1 claimed to have run a small electric car that his daughter drove around for days and days on end on the same battery while only being charged from the enviroment using this device.

Free energy from the environment is not new. There is solar, wind, water etc..

I would really like to keep an open mind with this stuff.. I was a big x-files fan and I guess the term "I want to believe" stuck with me. That is why I am still not convinced about HHO until I see it work for myself and I wouldnt automatically discount anything because everyone else says it doesnt work. I have to be able to prove it wrong but only when I know I have not missed anything.

Apparently the conspiracy theory here goes that Bob was implanted with a radioactive device in his shoulder and this has given him a rare form of cancer so he does not have long to live. If only some of what he says were true then we could lose years of research and knowledge if people like yourself go around ridiculing him rather than trying to prove him wrong by conducting experiments based on his theories while he is still around so we can ask him questions.. He says that most of tesla's work had been misinterpreted and modern day off the self electronics can not be fully used to replicate most of his work.

As for my board I cant really see a way forward until my level shifters arrive in the mail. I will debug my code and make it more robust so it always generates an output pulse whether it receives a signal or not.

 

[Oznog]

But Watkykjy1 claimed to have run a small electric car that his daughter drove around for days and days on end on the same battery while only being charged from the enviroment using this device.

Yeah and so did Tilley. And another hundred frauds before him. It's called being a "shill". The term "shill" is the first 2 customers hanging around the dude selling fake Rolexes saying "holy crap this is a steal! I know all about Rolexes, and this guy actually has real ones and doesn't even know it!" And the next guy's all "Look, can you hold off on selling the other one until I come back with more money?" "Nope, this fellow (sees you) just walked up". "Look, forget the $200. I'll be back in 5 minutes with $300! It's worth $500 easy!" "OK, hey you, if YOU give me $200 before the other guy gets back from the ATM, this fine watch is yours!" The joke is of course that both these guys work for the seller.

The problem is when people grossly underestimate the ability to shill, thinking they'd be obvious like infomercial people. No, in modern frauds, you sign up under a different screen name or pay somebody $50 to do this:
"i gotta say, i was really skeptical, but tried this:
1992 Ford Thundercougarfalconbird, never got over 17 mpg
added the official HHO system, made NO other changes, got 27 mpg the first tank- 59% increase! Didn't believe it, ran another tank, got 26 mpg. I'm consistently seeing 25mpg-28mpg"

Then you change styles- use different punctuation, emphasis, sentence structure, capitalization, more importantly change the "way of thinking"... like the next guy you're going to play you pretend by putting up meticulous data (all fictitious). And claim to have used a calibrated fuel meter. End with "I don't claim to know how it works, but the numbers most definitely show that it does work." Another guy you play claims to have met the first 2 guys. It's quite easy to sound like a different person.

These msg boards are quite literally packed with shills. You have to rely on some basic science here- you can't get energy for free. And, if there WAS some way to do it, you wouldn't have to sell plans or devices on the Internet. Go to GE or Ford and demonstrate anything demonstrable and make millions. Why don't they? Well, they have old, overused explanations- "uhh, we just want to help people not a big company", "they won't BELIEVE us" (bull, engineers and scientists can readily believe any repeatable effect regardless of whether it agrees with prior belief. Walk up, put it on the table for real to be studied by REAL people, get support right there), "it's a secret, so we're not selling them but taking investments" (uhh yeah... there is still a way to patent things), "there's a big oil conspiracy keeping it down" (which is bull, car mfgs are constantly pressured by the govt for better fuel economy and he who can make a more efficient practical car, even by a few %, by minor modifications can be rich easy).

 

[be80be]

If you want some good tip on how to interface higher logic of 5 volts to 3.3 volt uc read this it show you all you need

 

[jbalat]

Thanks be80be !! Will do


Oznog.. Whats the opposite of a Shill ?

Your arguments are no better or no worse than what Bob has presented. Where is the scientific proof that you have tried exactly what Bob has said and you proved him wrong ?

 

[Oznog]

Lemme point out what you're trying to do actually is:
The theory is that supplementing the fuel with H2 and O2 causes the gasoline to burn better.

Then they're saying that the fuel system is injecting too much fuel for the process. At first that sounds like a minor possibility. However, the O2 sensor, when properly working, always adjusts the proper fuel level for good combustion. Read up on why an O2 sensor is a good thing: defeating it MAY increase mpg. But leaner mixtures actually increase combustion temps- to a point, once it's really really lean then they cool down again, but overly lean mixtures don't produce a lot of cylinder pressure (power), and don't combust reliably. Lean mixtures are prone to detonation, which when the gasoline burns explosively outside the flame front proceeding away from the spark plug (which is why the "burns faster" argument shows a person knows nothing about engine combustion). Detonation will mechanically damage a piston very very quickly. Exceeding 1300 Kelvin in the cylinder with lean mixtures makes devastating NOx emissions which is why all cars are made to run slightly rich of the ideal stochi ratio. The heat will quickly damage the catalytic converter.

Tampering with the IAT instead of the O2 sensor will only create system instability. A commerical computer is kinda "black boxed" and makes adjustments based on algorithms which are not documented. I can tell you this- there is a chart in nonvolatile RAM parameter used to calculate fuel for any given throttle, RPM, air temp, engine block temp, and air pressure.

Why does it even need any sensor other than O2? Simple- the downstrean O2 sensor responds TOO SLOWLY to be the sole sensor for the fuel system, given how much people change the rpm and throttle, the point it's trying to calibrate for is gone before it's settled. However, the O2 IS the sole sensor for providing long-term feedback to adjust what fuel is given for a given throttle, RPM, air temp, air pressure sensor reading.

In short, if you throw off the IAT reading, then INITIALLY the computer may run it lean and appear to get "better fuel economy". Soon- within minutes or hours- the computer will observe the exhaust O2 is too high and increase the fuel for a given IAT reading, restoring the mfg-specified fuel/air ratio. As such, the exact IAT calibration usually isn't even critical to the engine, as long as it reads different values at different temps.

The only way to lean out the engine is to tamper with the O2 sensor. In doing so, you may well immediately gain 10%, maybe even 20% mpg. BUT, in doing so, it'll produce toxic NOx and will quickly destroy the cat forever, maybe burn the engine valves, maybe damage the piston through detonation. So it's a horrible idea. It could save tens of $ in fuel and cause thousands in damage, while being totally non-ecological. Which is why the engine was MADE not to run that lean.

And as far as small amounts of H2 and O2 being something that prevents high cylinder temps under lean conditions, that's clearly impossible. Preventing NOx formation, it's- well, absurdly unlikely, no one has ever attempted to test it that I've seen, in fact no one has ever even claimed it does this.

 

[jbalat]

Oznog..
Where is your sense of adventure. If you believe everything everyone says then there is no point doing it yourself.. I will let you know if it works or not. and if you want you can choose to believe me


Anyway I did some code debugging on the bench...
Seems that there are glitches coming into the input pin so that some of the frequencies are way beyond the 30Hz-300Hz.. This in-turn created an output pulse that was either way too long (giving the impression of no activity) or too short.
So I set the program to ignore anything out of bounds, however I probably need to do something about Noise suppression in the input signal as well

Any ideas ?
I have some 47uF orange ceramic caps.. Are they any good ?

 

[Oznog]

Oh I've got a sense of adventure. I'd love to try the "Star In A Jar" sometime. And I repeatedly get involved in projects that can't possibly be worth my while.

But you gotta draw the line somewhere. People promising "orgone energy", curing disease with "electrical resonance", free-energy-from-nothing, magic self-recharging electric cars, and other similar scams- they're scams. They detract from actually functional projects like wind, solar, efficient lighting, and real electric cars. Sadly these projects don't promise to turn lead into gold and give you something for very little effort. But, nonetheless, real chemists, with real effort and a respect for actual scientific method, have managed to turn cheap elements into things worth MORE than gold, per ounce.

Actually I'm being fairly unbiased about answering your electrical problem though. If you were one of those people trying to build an illegal cellphone jammer, I wouldn't help, but I'll help this. I'm still saying your Propeller is a terrible choice, even IF it's "what you have", it'll be much cheaper to buy an ICD2 and a 5v $0.50 PIC and knock this one out in a day.

 

[jbalat]

it'll be much cheaper to buy an ICD2 and a 5v $0.50 PIC and knock this one out in a day.

Cool... What is an ICD2, where can I get one, how do I wire it up and how do I programme it ? Do you have any tutorials you can point me to for beginners ?

Any tips about noise suppression so that I can put this one to bed.. It would make me feel much better if I actually completed one of my projects sometime

 

[be80be]

Cool... What is an ICD2, where can I get one, how do I wire it up and how do I programme it ? Do you have any tutorials you can point me to for beginners ?

Any tips about noise suppression so that I can put this one to bed.. It would make me feel much better if I actually completed one of my projects sometime

LoL only way you'll get a .50 cent pic is buy 10,000 of them you can get a 12f683 for $1.00 or a little more and a pickit2 for less then $40.00
(edit)More like $2.00 LOL just looked you can get a 12f508 for less then a 1.00 hard to program for some one new
Recap what you have so far circuit and code maybe fix this

 

[Oznog]

Proper Microchip ICD2 is $200, from Microchip Direct, Mouser, or Digikey, or anywhere really. There are cheaper products but ICD2 is da bomb since you can ICD with it and works with just about anything.

PICs, well there's a low end 12F from Mouser for $0.67... but hey, I'd suggest you splurge for an 18F, maybe $2. You probably want one with a CCP input, PWM output, internal oscillator, and can do ICD without a header. These are very common features. 18F has a C compiler for it. But a 12F or 16F can generally do the task you describe even without the dedicated peripherals.

 

[be80be]

this is the cheapest chip PIC12F508 - microchipDIRECT
which is a baseline chip not to good for starters
A pic would be easy I like the 18f1220 you can use swordfish with them easy to use and a lot of help on the net for swordfish all the OP needs is to catch a input and send it back out with a little delay

 

[pwssr]

Sorry I dont want to argue this stuff.. If you are interested you can look up the SMACK SUPREMACY videos on youtube
YouTube - The Smack Supremacy 1

Can anyone help interfacing my board with the ECU. This is my primary concern at the moment

Lots of help here: **broken link removed**

 

[jbalat]

Just wanted to say its all up and going now. It was a combination of reducing noise on the input line and setting limits in my program to ignore any input frequencies that were out of bounds..

Thanks to everyone who contributed..

I will post back if I get any saving with HHO just for Oznog

 

[Oznog]

Well you've clearly got something very wrong going on... and the solution you describe will not fix it. If you're receiving out-of-bounds "frequencies" (how are you doing this? Freq would need to be counted over a large time frame, period can be counted within one period but is subject to jitter error), then you've got missing or added edges so anything NOT in-bounds will probably be corrupt to some degree or another.

Furthermore, there should NOT be any noise on this line that would cause extra counts. Are you using schottky-trigger inputs?

Simple theory here- are you sure you tied the controller's ground to the signal bus ground?

 

[jbalat]

I did tie the controller down to the CARs earth and also to what I believe is the earth for the sensor. Without this connected it goes haywire.

I can debug some more while it is in the car using a laptop. It is receiving a lot of ZERO signals and a lot of timeouts which I have set to half a second. I know this because the led is continously flashing which I have setup in the program to show me when signal is out of bounds.

Nonetheless the output signal is very smooth and the car drives very smoothly maybe because it is running at 80 MHz..

 

[Oznog]

I did tie the controller down to the CARs earth and also to what I believe is the earth for the sensor. Without this connected it goes haywire.

I can debug some more while it is in the car using a laptop. It is receiving a lot of ZERO signals and a lot of timeouts which I have set to half a second. I know this because the led is continously flashing which I have setup in the program to show me when signal is out of bounds.

Nonetheless the output signal is very smooth and the car drives very smoothly maybe because it is running at 80 MHz..

Well, then you've gotta have an electrical problem like a bad connection- even a bad sensor- or a controller problem, like a prob with the hardware or coding. That task... 3MHz would have been more than enough for smoothness far beyond what would ever be needed. But I'm curious how you tried to solve this as all. Converting pulses to pulses at other rates is kinda tricky.

 

[jbalat]

If you are asking how the program works....

Well the propeller allows you to run 8 seperate processes asynchronously and share common variables

1 cog just repeats and reads the time from hi to hi for the input signal.. It waits for a lo, then waits for a hi and measures the time until it goes lo and then hi again. So that it does not lock up, it does this in a loop such that if any of these steps take more than half a second it restarts from the start. If the time is within the acceptable range then it saves it to the main 'pulsin' variable and restarts. Potentially the output is always 2 pulses behind the input.

The 2nd cog just loops reading a pot by using the decay time of charging a cap then discharging it. This is divided by a factor to give a range of 100-150%. If this is in this range then it writes this to a shared variable 'pot' (this is far too much)

The last cog just does a hi and waits for the input time * pot / 100, then it does a lo and waits again.. This is repeated in a loop

You can download it **broken link removed** if you want a look..or Debug it for me

 

[noob24]

ho do i create my own forum?

 

[jbalat]

Check out this site
phpBB • Creating Communities Worldwide

 

[kchriste]

ho do i create my own forum?

Maybe start with learning how to create your own thread?