I chose this UPS, what do you think?

[killivolt]

https://www.cdw.com/shop/products/T...P&cm_sp=Product-_-Session&ProgramIdentifier=3

Ok, I have some high price items I'm trying to protect. I'll need something else to protect the network in this particular Cabinet, this unit only has power protection.

The total on the UPS I figured the VA at 3000 is 25amps. My total consumption of the devices in the rack is 23.34 amps, which is below the rated amperage of the UPS, I won't be using backup power supply from the batteries, I only want it to shut down in an emergency or help guard against Spikes and Browns.

I figure the outlets on the Surge side will be the division of 25amps to the 3 outlets? If I'm wrong let me know. However, I'll have

Out 1 = 7.75a

Out 2 = 8.3a

Out 3= 7.29a

If feel I'm cutting it to close, let me know what you think? I would like some input to make sure of this before my purchase. I'll need 2 of these to cover 2 racks with the same equipment.

Thanks,

kv

 

[Reloadron]

I like the sine wave output. While cutting it a little close for the current I don't see a problem because as you mention, you don't plan an extended run using it but rather a nice controlled shutdown. While far from inexpensive I see it as a good investment. I run several lesser units and their only purpose is to maintain things for about 10 seconds till my backup is online.

Ron

 

[killivolt]

I like the sine wave output. While cutting it a little close for the current I don't see a problem because as you mention, you don't plan an extended run using it but rather a nice controlled shutdown. While far from inexpensive I see it as a good investment. I run several lesser units and their only purpose is to maintain things for about 10 seconds till my backup is online.

Ron

Well I'm not sure if my calculations are correct? That is to say the load limit 25amps is distributed across 3 Surge Plugs, at 8.3amps per outlet. From some previous documentation I read on a different UPS I think their are 3 different supply windings. It should be like that all of them I'm pretty sure at least?

 

[eTech]

Well I'm not sure if my calculations are correct? That is to say the load limit 25amps is distributed across 3 Surge Plugs, at 8.3amps per outlet. From some previous documentation I read on UPS that's what it seemed their are 3 different supply windings. It should be like that all of them I'm pretty sure at least?

Hi

The spec says:

Built-in UPS output receptacles:8 5-15/20R outlet(s); 1 L5-30R outlet(s)
Built-in controllable switched load banks:Two switchable single-outlet load banks
Output circuit breaker:Two 20A output breakers protect 4 5-15/20R outlets each

So there are 2 groups of 4 receptacles, including one that is switched.

3000VA is the total capacity of the UPS. So you can use any combination of outlets as long as the total load doesn't exceed 3000VA.
However, since the outlets are divided between two 20A breakers (4 outlets each), you have to consider that when connecting equipment.
As a guideline, if you divide the load evenly, then you can connect up to 12.5A per group of 4 outlets.

So with the numbers you listed:

Out 1 = 7.75a
Out 2 = 8.3a
Out 3= 7.29
You'll be able to connect any two to one outlet group, and the third to the other outlet group.

Hope I didn't confuse you...

Other than that, I think its a nice UPS...

eT

 

[killivolt]

Hi

The spec says:

Built-in UPS output receptacles:8 5-15/20R outlet(s); 1 L5-30R outlet(s)
Built-in controllable switched load banks:Two switchable single-outlet load banks
Output circuit breaker:Two 20A output breakers protect 4 5-15/20R outlets each

So there are 2 groups of 4 receptacles, including one that is switched.

3000VA is the total capacity of the UPS. So you can use any combination of outlets as long as the total load doesn't exceed 3000VA.
However, since the outlets are divided between two 20A breakers (4 outlets each), you have to consider that when connecting equipment.
As a guideline, if you divide the load evenly, then you can connect up to 12.5A per group of 4 outlets.

So with the numbers you listed:

Out 1 = 7.75a
Out 2 = 8.3a
Out 3= 7.29
You'll be able to connect any two to one outlet group, and the third to the other outlet group.

Hope I didn't confuse you...

Other than that, I think its a nice UPS...

eT

So, if I gather this correctly, and may I point out, you have a very good way of putting things, I got it. Most folks don't or can't tell me in lay terms. Not their fault, it's my problem.

Now, I have 2 groups, one is on the Surge protected side and the other is on the Battery side, with one outlet that can go either way, but in this case not important.

So, with that said I have many possible way's to hook up this equipment because I added them in one way, but I can configure them in more possible way's knowing I have 12.5A per group.

Thanks,

kv

 

[KeepItSimpleStupid]

KV:

You MIGHT have a problem. VA is not watts.

Note this spec: 2.25 kW, 3000 VA

You have 2250 W to deal with, not 3000 W. So a resistive load is 2250 W and an inductive load is 3000 VA.
So, 2250/120 = 18.75 AMPs

So, you really need Power Factor numbers for what your going to back up.

I would not invest in that UPS until, I measured what I had to back-up. Spring for about $20.00 http://www.p3international.com/products/p4400.html first.

I have two UPS's at home. Both "broken" which meant, they need new batteries. One is a about a 500 VA Tripp-lite. If the batteries die the UPS dies.
The UPS won't even start. Not 100% sure what the APC does. One UPS does the cordless phone, ans machine, PERS alarm and a small light because of moms mobility issues. So, the high intensity lamp works and thus you can find the flashlight if you had too and we don;t lose the time on the ans. machine.

The other, at home does "most" of my network stuff.

The only UPS I had to select was one where there would be a transition from utility/generator to UPS. Not all UPS's will work with a generator. That was my management issue. Why did we need this "more expensive" UPS?

In any event the NEC will not allow a "continuous" circuit to be loaded more than 80%. So, that's why you have to feed it with a 30 A 120 V circuit.

The 20 A receptacle can only "support" 80% of 20 A continuously, so that is the max load on the receptacle.

There is a lot more to this VA thing that meets the eye. Motors/inductances require V*A to start, because A is the start-up current and the UPS has to be able to supply that. It's entirely likely that 3000 W cannot be supported continuously. Guess on my part.

I'd measure before investing. Not sure if that version of the kill-a-watt is capable of measuring start-up VA.

 

[killivolt]

KV:

You MIGHT have a problem. VA is not watts.

Note this spec: 2.25 kW, 3000 VA

You have 2250 W to deal with, not 3000 W. So a resistive load is 2250 W and an inductive load is 3000 VA.
So, 2250/120 = 18.75 AMPs

So, you really need Power Factor numbers for what your going to back up.

I would not invest in that UPS until, I measured what I had to back-up. Spring for about $20.00 http://www.p3international.com/products/p4400.html first.

I have two UPS's at home. Both "broken" which meant, they need new batteries. One is a about a 500 VA Tripp-lite. If the batteries die the UPS dies.
The UPS won't even start. Not 100% sure what the APC does. One UPS does the cordless phone, ans machine, PERS alarm and a small light because of moms mobility issues. So, the high intensity lamp works and thus you can find the flashlight if you had too and we don;t lose the time on the ans. machine.

The other, at home does "most" of my network stuff.

The only UPS I had to select was one where there would be a transition from utility/generator to UPS. Not all UPS's will work with a generator. That was my management issue. Why did we need this "more expensive" UPS?

In any event the NEC will not allow a "continuous" circuit to be loaded more than 80%. So, that's why you have to feed it with a 30 A 120 V circuit.

The 20 A receptacle can only "support" 80% of 20 A continuously, so that is the max load on the receptacle.

There is a lot more to this VA thing that meets the eye. Motors/inductances require V*A to start, because A is the start-up current and the UPS has to be able to supply that. It's entirely likely that 3000 W cannot be supported continuously. Guess on my part.

I'd measure before investing. Not sure if that version of the kill-a-watt is capable of measuring start-up VA.

Good thing, I'll keep all this good info, and put it into the split decision, I will need to contact the Company and will load my questions with this much informed content. Spending the amount I'm wanting to spend is very important that I get it right. I can't afford to be down in the event that battery's fail, my biggest problem.

I really needed this info, subject the follow up on the RTI.

Thanks,

 

[KeepItSimpleStupid]

In an "always-on" topology, I think you get:
1. mains charge battery
2. Battery provides power to Class D-amp

Hence, if battery fails - no UPS.

Mission critical may require battery Hot swap and say an SNMP enabled UPS. I'll just throw something out without reading it all: https://www.apc.com/products/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=AP9630&tab=features

In the low-end market, the ups might be $80 and the battery $35 to $40 with shipping. In my case, I don't care about 24/7/365. I'd probably get 24/7/365*3-(2 weeks). So, battery fails. UPS starts beeping. You transfer to non-backed up outlets hopefully and for 1-2 weeks your not covered 24/7 until battery arrives.

That, I think, is your biggest gotcha. What happens when the battery dies?

The second gotcha, is how do you monitor the batteries?

Usually a graceful shutdown is what people want. best scenario is if you can test at a specific time when there would be no impact or have a monitorable system that alerts you via an SNMP trap.

But if you want more, then a generator has to kick in and a lot of UPS's aren't tolerant of the varying frequency output of the, i.e. diesel generator.

For alarm systems, a lot of people just replace the batteries on a schedule and it becomes an expense. Sometimes the bean counters don't want to replace a $30 battery every year if it's not "necessary". I had that happen too, but not with a UPS. I used a UL listed fire alarm/door lock controller with battery backup for a safety system. I used something like this: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...=HJStEPKQfuS2mWxEGExTlw&bvm=bv.54934254,d.dmg

I think, the way I designed it, the strobes got activated if a gas alarm was detected. Then if the system went to generator power, the detection would need to be detected again, but once set it had to be manually reset. History was available with one system (the one that mattered), but not the other (Hydrogen) during a power fail. Options could have been purchased for history.

 

[eTech]

Now, I have 2 groups, one is on the Surge protected side and the other is on the Battery side, with one outlet that can go either way, but in this case not important.

kv

So....I'm not sure what you mean here, because all of the outlets in each group are protected. The only difference is one of the outlets for each group is "switched", meaning you can turn it off or on remotely using the software that comes with the UPS, without affecting the "unswitched" outlets. The switched outlet is at the right end of each group (as shown in the graphic).

Also, you might want to read the reviews because sometimes there is good info in them.

BTW, all the UPS's I've used are made by APC including SmartUPS 3000. Excellent UPS's...

eT

 

[eTech]

In an "always-on" topology, I think you get:
1. mains charge battery
2. Battery provides power to Class D-amp

Hence, if battery fails - no UPS.

Mission critical may require battery Hot swap and say an SNMP enabled UPS. I'll just throw something out without reading it all: https://www.apc.com/products/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=AP9630&tab=features

In the low-end market, the ups might be $80 and the battery $35 to $40 with shipping. In my case, I don't care about 24/7/365. I'd probably get 24/7/365*3-(2 weeks). So, battery fails. UPS starts beeping. You transfer to non-backed up outlets hopefully and for 1-2 weeks your not covered 24/7 until battery arrives.

That, I think, is your biggest gotcha. What happens when the battery dies?

Um.. the APC SmartUPS I use work differently.
AC feeds a charger, charger charges the battery, battery feeds an DC-AC inverter, inverter feeds the load,
So if the battery fails, the charger continues to supply DC to the inverter, so the load is "uninterrupted".
The batteries are "hot pluggable", meaning you can put the UPS in "bypass mode" and change the batteries
without interrupting the load.

The second gotcha, is how do you monitor the batteries?

The monitoring is done by the software application that comes with the APC UPS. If I remember correctly, gives info like Load %,
Battery status, etc. Some can even send you Email notifications for various alerts. The ones I use have a optional Ethernet network management module installed for monitoring and management.

One thing that should be done is "Runtime Calibraton". The UPS is put in a calibration mode where it detects the rate of battery discharge so that it can calibrate the charger. If this isn't done, the batteries can become overcharged which causes them to swell. Then you can't even remove them from the UPS when they need to be replaced...

eT

 

[killivolt]

This is the User Manual, I hadn't thought to pull it off the net and look at it. This thing is a really nice unit for the Price...https://www.tripplite.com/shared/product-pages/en/SMART3000RM2U.pdf

Now my problem is that 9th switchable outlet that you describe can be turned off or on, is it on either of the 2 banks or is it independent, and if independent does it share full load capability, meaning all 25amps?

If not, I guess? it could be on either of the 2 banks, depending on the configuration.

 

[killivolt]

Speaking of reviews not many customers are happy with the "SNMPWEBCARD" it's an add on for controlling the unit over the Net, I guess the web interphase is glitchy and the cards don't install well, it's like Microsoft all over again.
Why can't these people get their act together and just design something to work rather that trying to rush to the market with what could be a great product?

 

[eTech]

This is the User Manual, I hadn't thought to pull it off the net and look at it. This thing is a really nice unit for the Price...https://www.tripplite.com/shared/product-pages/en/SMART3000RM2U.pdf

Now my problem is that 9th switchable outlet that you describe can be turned off or on, is it on either of the 2 banks or is it independent, and if independent does it share full load capability, meaning all 25amps?

If not, I guess? it could be on either of the 2 banks, depending on the configuration.

There is one switched outlet in each group and it shares the total UPS load capacity.

There are only 2 groups of 4 outlets (3 unswitched + 1 switched) and they all share the total load capacity. So there are 8 total outlets. Each group is protected by a breaker, so each group is further limited by the breaker capacity.

The switched outlet is only independent in that it can be switched on/off without interrupting the other outlets .

eT

 

[killivolt]

There is one switched outlet in each group and it shares the total UPS load capacity.

There are only 2 groups of 4 outlets (3 unswitched + 1 switched) and they all share the total load capacity. So there are 8 total outlets. Each group is protected by a breaker, so each group is further limited by the breaker capacity.

The switched outlet is only independent in that it can be switched on/off without interrupting the other outlets .

eT

So, the load capacity is shared by all, with the limit being the circuit breakers and how many devices per bank of the outlets.

The single outlet can be on/off is it likely to be on one or the other breakers, Or is it's totally independent with no circuit breaker interrupt?

 

[eTech]

So, the load capacity is shared by all, with the limit being the circuit breakers and how many devices per bank of the outlets.

The single outlet can be on/off is it likely to be on one or the other breakers, Or is it's totally independent with no circuit breaker interrupt?

It's protected by the same breaker as the other outlets in its group..

eT

 

[killivolt]

I called the reps he suggested this one, but I don't understand the price difference. Not that I'm complaining because now it's about the same price when I include the Network Card, which is about $200.

https://www.cdw.com/shop/products/T...P&cm_sp=Product-_-Session&ProgramIdentifier=3

 

[KeepItSimpleStupid]

What I initially see is that your missing the "switched outlet(s)" which was probably there to "Re-boot" servers remotely by turning off the power.

 

[killivolt]

What I initially see is that your missing the "switched outlet(s)" which was probably there to "Re-boot" servers remotely by turning off the power.

Good Catch, I really just need to be notified in the event of a power failure e.g. to go and > restart.

Thanks,

kv

 

[eTech]

Good Catch, I really just need to be notified in the event of a power failure e.g. to go and > restart.

Thanks,

kv

Hi

The SMART3000RMXL2U has the same features/functionality as the SMART3000RM2U but is has more Load Capacity: 2880W.
It also has the same number of unswitched/switched outlets.

eT

 

[killivolt]

I'm still confused on the charge. If I set up the charge as continuous rather than when needed. Which one may over charge?