Home automation system

[lilimike]

Seeking suggestions on designing a home automation system?
I am not looking to design to sell, this is for myself.
I have had X10 for the past 9 years and part of the main controller reached its end of live.
I've tried to do something with Arduino but every day is a different issue depending on how hard I breath so I took X10 out of my list.

From extensive searching I came up with ZigBee and Z-wave, ZigBee is too expensive, Z-Wave is more appealing so I was going to chose this but I am certainly not going to purchase plugs and switches/dimmers at $50 a piece and I am not finding enough info to get started.
I want to design(for the fun of it) and I don't want to spend thousands of dollars.

Any suggestion that makes sense is welcome.

 

[ronsimpson]

My main computer is "basic tiger" but i am switching to "beagle bone black".

 

[lilimike]

beagle bone black is a miniature version of a computer, I guess it can be used as a controller but so is my computer for that matter. I am more loking for a solution to integrate to lamp switches and plugs to turn them on/off and dim on a scheduled time. I don't mind using my computer as a controller and perhaps eventually I will develop an APP on my android. The main reason I had Z-Wave in mind is it's ability for each device to communicate with each other. This way if the controller is on third floor it can still control a lamp in the basement via all the devices in between.

EDIT: After looking at the Beagle Bone Black more closely I would definitely use this instead of my computer, this board is by far superior to Arduino or Raspberry Pi.

 

[3v0]

If you care to use microchip radios I suggest you look into MiWi. It is much like Zigbee without the application profiles. That is to say it is a mesh network.

The stack is a bit of a memory hog. I would suggest going to 24F's with a lot of memory rather then 18F parts.

I started out with their development kit and after making boards of my own sold the kit to another member here. But my stuff is all 18F and I want to use 24F at least for the major nodes. Stalled at that point in 2011.

The board below the NiMh pack is for charging the battery. Left of it is the board with the processor and radio. Left of that is and IO board and and a TTL to USB. One the far left is a junebug programmer.

 

[lilimike]

I just found in my parts list a couple of MRF24J40MA modules, I am not sure if it is overkill for my needs but I will look into this.

What are you using for switch/dimmer and plugs?
I guess maybe digital pots and triacs for dimmers and relays for plugs...
My biggest concern at this point is to supply the 3 to 5 volts to each plug and switches, adding even a small transformer would take quite a bit of space and for the switches, if the live wire does not arrive at the switch, by turning on (closing) the switch I lose the power don't I?

 

[ronsimpson]

I am using X-10.
Many people can only get 1/2 of the outlets working because they don't know how to get the signal to the other phase of the power line.
I resend the commands every 15 minutes because some of the commands don't make it. AND The first time I send twice. I do not control important things like garage doors with x-10 but it is fine for light bulbs.

My ZigBee is not connected, just playing with it.

For me connecting to the internet is very important. I an using a siteplayer module to get on the internet. I want to get to beagle bone black because internet will be much better. All house computers do see the home control via a web page. My phone can see and make changes. It can be reached form anywhere in the world.

 

[lilimike]

I have had **broken link removed** as a controller for the past 9 years and purchased all the modules from x10.com for almost all of my house (plugs, lamps, dimmers) the signal was injected from a plug I setup right next to my main electrical panel with TW523. This worked perfectly until the keypad gave up on me.

I was unable to repair it, no response from the manufacturer and the reseller wanted near $300 to replace the keypad.
I could not figure out how to interface to the main controller so I was stuck with lights turning on at 8:30PM for summer daylight.
I then decided to do something with Arduino which worked 90% of the time when I was staring at it and 50% of the time when left alone. I have looked at all the possibilities, turning on clothes dryer to link the 2 phases and trying different plugs although I was still using TW523 to inject the signal in the same plug.

With all the issues I've had, the troubles and annoyance because I never get the right light intensity or some lights stay on and others don't turn on + my wife laughing at me and keeps asking why I don't just turn the lights on when I need them and off when I don't. Although she makes sense, I just can't give up.

I have decided to dump X10 and go wireless and at the same time have the option to control everything from a website.
The beagle bone black looks interesting, it is the other end that worries me, the modules.

 

[KeepItSimpleStupid]

Look at Insteon, UPB and X-10. X-10 is going out of favor, but RS232 to these protocols are available. UPB is kinda neat.

I to plan on a simple home automation system.

#1 on the list is to control an outdoor light from a car X-10 RF remote and my cell phone or web. The light will be UPB.
I have all of the parts, but I'm missing a major part of the infrastructure.

#2 on the list is to again, use an X-10 RF remote and control a hot water recirculator. I also want to control it from motion detector and my cell. The RF remote will be in the kitchen and would also be able to control the light. Te motion detector will be in the bathroom.

#3 Is to complete a wireless doorbell with alarm grade wireless modules.

That's my starting point.

 

[lilimike]

I've looked at Insteon and UPB, I could add an UPB to X10 converter but my issues remain with X10. And i don't want to replace all my X10 modules with Insteon or UPB modules at $50/each.
I am left with designing from a beagle bone black to a wireless solution and design my own modules.

Wireless solution:
Z-Wave looked appealing but I can't find enough info.
I will see if I can configure MRF24J40MA or RFM12B with small PIC to do the same as Z-Wave (to have each module communicate as repeaters)
I don't have a big house but it is on three floors and I think I will need the repeating as I can have the controller either on top or bottom floor.

Modules:
Yes I know about the dangers but will try to find a good transformerless circuits for plugs or possibly battery operated.

I am open to other suggestions.

 

[3v0]

I just found in my parts list a couple of MRF24J40MA modules, I am not sure if it is overkill for my needs but I will look into this.

What are you using for switch/dimmer and plugs?
I guess maybe digital pots and triacs for dimmers and relays for plugs...
My biggest concern at this point is to supply the 3 to 5 volts to each plug and switches, adding even a small transformer would take quite a bit of space and for the switches, if the live wire does not arrive at the switch, by turning on (closing) the switch I lose the power don't I?

For power I was using 2nd hand wall warts. Looked into building supplies but transformer version always run into money. The wall warts are like $1 each at the local 2nd hand store. Someone suggested cutting them open an mounting them with the control board. Whatever works for you.

At one time I had 5 nodes working. I never got around to controlling anything but was reporting temperatures back. My first application will be to have temperature sensors in the several refrigerators and freezers we have. I got around to ordering triacs but did not do much with them. With triacs and the PIC on chip timers you can vary AC power just like a light dimmer.

 

[ronsimpson]

I have looked at changing my X10 modules. Keeping the (switch or tirac), case, and power supply but replacing the micro/modem with a RF receiver. The cheep receivers have short distance, noise problems and need good error checking to make a good network. (probably slightly beyond me).

 

[3v0]

The microchip modules used to do miWi have all the error correction built into them. The mesh net is setup so that modules forward packets so you can build an extensive net with these short range radios. But they start at about $9 each.
One of the nice things is you can buy modules with longer ranges the use then as links between bits of your nets. I intend to do this between the house and shop which are separated by a street.

https://www.mouser.com/Embedded-Solutions/RF-Wireless-Modules/_/N-6f8ws?Keyword=MRF24J40&FS=True

 

[lilimike]

I have taken apart an x10 switch to see if I can keep part of it but it doesn't look like it's going to happen, other than a triac and a bunch of capacitors, it has a chip that I can't trace (probably the X10 side of it) and it is rather complex. Another issue I had when using those switches was I needed to remote dim as the switch itself could only be on or off manually.
The wall wart idea is not a bad idea as I have hundreds of them laying around. The big problem is when at the switch outlet there is only a live wire with no neutral, once the switch is closed there is no more power left.
But I figured since the lights that require dimming are usually always set to the same intensity, I will use a standard dimmer switch adjust to desired intensity and insert my module that will be simply a switch where ever the live and neutral is located (at the switch or light fixture)
I have a couple of RFM12B and a couple of MRF24J40, presently playing with these to see which I should use, RFM12B appear to be simpler but will see how it goes.

 

[ronsimpson]

I am trying to not use the RFM12 type of radios.
The MRF24J40 looks very usable to me. I think it is much like the ZigBee that I am playing with.

 

[KeepItSimpleStupid]

This http://www.webmtn.com/RUC/RUC-information.php is the little guy I got. I played with it for a while and it could not send X-10 commands properly. They worked with me and agreed. Before I can put it back in service again, I have to fix an issue that is preventing me from mounting it.

Plan is two fold:
1. Listen for an X-10 command and send out a UPB command.

As you have said, the X-10 modules are a little out of date and somewhat unreliable. I actually wanted to send a HOMELINK command directly from one of the cars. The X-10 modules have been breaking. I only had a couple of them anyway. They did have a nice RF remote which can be mounted on the wall.

So, hopefully an X-10 command will eventually turn on a UPB module. That X-10 command should be able to com from the web, my phone, an RF transmitter.

I have my eye on this fan module: **broken link removed**

 

[3v0]

I am trying to not use the RFM12 type of radios.
The MRF24J40 looks very usable to me. I think it is much like the ZigBee that I am playing with.

You can run either a Zigbee or MiWi stack on the MRF24J40. The RFM12B is a much simpler device with no concept of a network built in.

Mesh networks it what attracts me to MiWi. Sure it is more complex but it also has a lot to offer.

 

[ronsimpson]

My experience with FRM12 and such is that:
I have to test the output many times per bit. Is it High or Low and is it 1/0 for more than 50% of one bit time. AND If it is about 50/50% then it is noise. This eats 100% of my CPU time.

With the mesh network modules there is 100s of bytes of buffer. (low CPU usage) Error checking and resend requests, are invisible to me. Many networks will forward a message to the right module that is too far away to see. (again with out my knowledge)

 

[mramos1]

This threads given me an idea. As I have a Raspberry Py, X10 modules and a (serial) firecracker. I have ran the X10 from a Windows machine in the past.

Maybe I should use the Pi to run it like I do for my garage opener and to control my whole house (DTV) DVR right now. No lights but I can add them too.

 

[lilimike]

Good luck with X10.
From my experience, if it works... great, if not it will consume most of your time.

After doing quite a bit of reading, I've been convinced MRF24J40 is the way to go for me. I feel like it's about to be a long journey but I'm going for it.

 

[mramos1]

Good luck with X10.
From my experience, if it works... great, if not it will consume most of your time.

After doing quite a bit of reading, I've been convinced MRF24J40 is the way to go for me. I feel like it's about to be a long journey but I'm going for it.

I used X10 years ago under Windows. A Cm2211 (or 2210) program or something along that name to drive an RS232 X10 firecracker. Always worked. I think I ported it to basic or C somewhere. If I find that I will move the Linux (Pi) and use that, low power and all. I now have my Laptop and Pi controlling the Direct TV unit. It's a blast, I hit a key and rotate through my favorite channels. It would cool to manage the lights from there too.

I really want to try a beagle bone black since it has ADC for more drive power.