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Help me identify electronic component

Discussion in 'General Electronics Chat' started by Nate Persson, Jan 11, 2018.

  1. Nate Persson

    Nate Persson New Member

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    Can someone identify the 3 lower creme colored boxes labeled: 107A No34Z? Would it be possible to buy one of these components in order to replace one that has burned? This is an Engine Control Module for a Ford Engine on a 2000 Genie Z45/22 manlift. IMG_20180111_200350-1.jpg
     
  2. chemelec

    chemelec Well-Known Member

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    Obviously Polarized capacitors, but values I am not sure
     
  3. JLNY

    JLNY Active Member

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    107 would probably mean that it has a value of 100 microfarads, but I'm not sure what the voltage rating would be. You could try looking up what the supply voltages are or try measuring the supply voltage from the board and getting an appropriate value based on that. Typically, you will want your caps to have a voltage rating significantly higher than the maximum supply voltage for maximum safety.
     
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  4. dave

    Dave New Member

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  5. Nate Persson

    Nate Persson New Member

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    Could I go to an online electronics supplier and buy this capacitor? If so, what information would I need about the capacitor?
     
  6. JLNY

    JLNY Active Member

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    The main characteristics you will probably want to know are:
    -The capacitance: 100uF
    -The capacitor material: In this case, since it is a polar capacitor, I'm fairly certain it will be a tantalum capacitor.
    -The voltage rating: which we don't know at the moment. Keep in mind that you want to have the same voltage rating or higher than the original capacitors.
    -The package size/dimensions: which you can probably measure if you have a set of calipers or something. It doesn't need to be ultra-exact, but it should be sized to be able to solder to the same pads on the board.

    Parts can be purchased from electronics suppliers like Digikey or Mouser. If you are able to determine the package size, the safest bet might be to just get the highest voltage rating within that package size. Other factors like ESR (Equivalent Series Resistance) can also be important, but generally speaking, lower ESR is preferable in most applications.

    https://www.digikey.com/products/en/capacitors/tantalum-capacitors/59?FV=1140003,mu100µF|2049,ffe0003b&mnonly=0&ColumnSort=0&page=1&stock=1&pbfree=0&rohs=0&cad=0&datasheet=0&nstock=0&photo=0&nonrohs=0&newproducts=0&quantity=&ptm=0&fid=0&pageSize=25
     
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  7. jpanhalt

    jpanhalt Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    The "A" after the value may very well indicate 10V rating.

    upload_2018-1-12_4-59-23.png
    TS will still need to measure the capacitor to get the right size. This chart may help:
    upload_2018-1-12_5-0-47.png

    As suggested, be sure the 10 V "rating" is consistent with the voltage being supplied to that board.

    John

    EDIT: As the TS is apparently not familiar with tantalum capacitors, let me add some precautions:
    1) Note the polarity marking. Always replace with the same orientation.
    2) For tantalum capacitors of this type, that marking is the positive end.
    3) For aluminum capacitors, that marking is the negative end. Edit (01/14/18): That comment refers to marking the negative pole of very common "non-solid" aluminum electrolytic capacitors. Those with solid electrolyte may look similar to tantalum capacitors, and if a terminal is marked, the one that is marked is the positive terminal according to Wikipedia. Digikey lists none like that. The solid tantalum capacitors it shows in molded cases are not marked as such.
    4) Installing them wrong can lead to immediate and spectacular failure, particularly for tantalum capacitors.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
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  8. alec_t

    alec_t Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Looks like the top cap has a hole in it. Is the marking A336E? If so, then as per post #6 the value would be 33uF, 25V.
     
  9. dr pepper

    dr pepper Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    I'd say they were tantalums, they usually go bang when dead.
    107 kinda implies thats a 100uF capacitor.
    You could probably harvest one from a scrap computer motherboard.
     
  10. Nate Persson

    Nate Persson New Member

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    Wow, you guys are amazing! You were able to communicate your knowledge in such a way as to make it practically usable to a novice like me. Everything each contributer posted checks out, and I was able to identify and order the $10 part from Mouser. If this works, I will save $4K in not buying a new ECM. Thanks so much!!
     
  11. DerStrom8

    DerStrom8 Super Moderator Most Helpful Member

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    Usually if a capacitor fails, something else is is also wrong. Simply replacing the capacitor may not fix the root cause. What makes you think these tantalum capacitors are the reason for the failure? Have you done any sort of testing to see if other components are damaged?
     
  12. Nate Persson

    Nate Persson New Member

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    That does worry me a lot. I did pay a service tech about $1,000 to root around in the wiring (took him a couple days-he mostly sat in his truck reading up on the service manual), but I'm not real confident he actually fixed anything. To his credit, he did identify that there was a problem in the ECM, which I found when I opened it up and saw a burned capacitor. But he claimed that he checked all the attached components and groundwires. So, not being an electronics expert, I think I will solder in the new capacitor and hope for the best.
     
  13. DerStrom8

    DerStrom8 Super Moderator Most Helpful Member

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    Well good luck. To be honest, as an electronics engineer I think it's unlikely that simply changing the capacitor will fix the problem. If it does, then fantastic. But I'm really not convinced the technician really did anything at all, and I doubt it was worth $1000. I think you got gypped there. It doesn't cost someone $1000 to determine that something isn't working correctly. If he found the cause of the problem beyond a doubt and actually took the time and effort to fix it and test it to ensure it was working correctly, only then it might be worth $1000 (depending on how bad you need it).
     
  14. Nate Persson

    Nate Persson New Member

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    Another thing I am curious about. Part of my reticence to buy a new ECM (apart from the price tag), is that I have heard that it would have to be flash programmed to work in the Genie manlift. Would anyone of you know if replacing this blown capacitor would require the ECM to be reprogrammed?
     
  15. DerStrom8

    DerStrom8 Super Moderator Most Helpful Member

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    I wouldn't think the capacitor would affect the programming of the ECM, but maybe someone else would be better qualified to answer this.
     
  16. schmitt trigger

    schmitt trigger Active Member

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    A new tantalum capacitor of that value, purchased in single quantities from US distributors, would cost you around US$4. Shipping would be as expensive as the cap itself.

    So if you are skilled with a soldering iron, it would be worthwhile to attempt to fix the board by replacing it.
    Go for it. What do you have to lose other than a few bucks?

    EDIT: could you show a picture of the whole board?
     
  17. dr pepper

    dr pepper Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Thats why I eluded to the fact when I said tants usually go bang, the caps in the pic dont look exploded, th etop one just looks mechanically damaged.
    Unfortunately I agree with whats been said the cap probably isnt the cause.
    The pcm probably is coded to the rest of the electronics, this isoften the case with cars & Fork lifts, changing it may well require a reprogram, replacing a cap wont.
    We have a nifty lift cherry picker, at one time we had a genie, it wasnt reliable either, the nifty is a mechnically injected kubota diesel engine.
     
  18. Nate Persson

    Nate Persson New Member

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    Here is a picture of the board, with the blown capacitor in the middle (magnified), and the capacitors from the former picture in the upper right background. I think I will take your advice and go for it!
    Genie capacitor Pic 2.jpg
     
  19. dr pepper

    dr pepper Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    The big doofer next to the screw is probably a mosfet, above that what looks like a 0.05 ohm resistor most likely a current sense resistor, I wonder if the fet and resistor control the ignition coil.
    See what happens you might fix it.
     
  20. DerStrom8

    DerStrom8 Super Moderator Most Helpful Member

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    Wow, that sure is one crisp Tantalum. Are you sure of its value? There were at least two different values of Tantalums in your photos.
     
  21. jpanhalt

    jpanhalt Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    ClydeCrashKop
    upload_2018-1-15_5-37-41.png

    Can you share what you think the correct answer was at that point in the conversation so we can all benefit?
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2018

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