# GM files Chapter 11

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#### tcmtech

##### Banned
WTF! Another turd that should have been flushed just got pulled out and polished again?

Give them the plunger treatment and let them go and stay under! We are having a economic crisis and the government wants to buy up 60% of GM to keep them afloat, Again? With tax payer money of course!

Am almost starting to believe the conspiracy nutters that this economic crisis is simply the governments way of buying full legal control of the American way of life.

So what do you guys think? Anyone got any of that 27 cent GM stock laying around still?

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#### HarveyH42

##### Banned
How much bailout money did Obama give them a few months back? Guess it was only enough to pay executive bonuses... Since the government basically owns the company, does that make every GM employee, a federal employee, and entitled to all the perks and benefits? Would be nice to get a minimal of one paid federal holiday every month, free health care, pension, guaranteed pay annual increases, travel vouchers... And of course job security, meaning unless they kill somebody, they are guaranteed a job for life, regardless of qualifications or competence.

Kind of a pity. I preferred GM over Ford for years, and have been really hating my Explorer for about a month now (first time I absolutely had to use 'special tool' to replace a water pump).

#### HiTech

##### Well-Known Member
(My opinion)

GM has produced its share of junk back in the late 70's and early 80's. Now it desires to produce vehicles to small, niche' buyers, like the new Camaro or the ZR1 'Vette, etc. In times of further CAFE restrictions imposed by the government, GM finds the need to produce a 426hp Camaro muscle car of which only 14,000 have been produced thus far. I guess they had to try to even the score against Chrysler's Hemi Challenger and Ford's Mustang GT. Meanwhile, GM resurrects the Malibu and the Monte Carlo as dismal looking contraptions; their pickup trucks have a squinty-eyed oriental look with plain body panels; and the Cadillac line has been stained with the likes of the Cimarron model... and now they too see the need for a performance model based on the 'Vette chassis for those rich and famous golfers, young doctors, etc.

For nearly the same price of a ZR1 'Vette, you could buy a Hennessey converted Dodge Viper that will clean its clock! Another $25 thousand gets you a Ford GT... now you're steppin' into the realm of fine sports cars. Years back I was primarily a GM man, but between loads of repairs and dealers/customers believing GM products were superior, I walked away from it all... FAST! The two best vehicles I ever owned were a '83 Toyota truck that had one failure (fuel pump... and even that was a very rare failure for Toyota) and the truck survived two separate rollover incidents without being totaled out. The other is my current truck, '02 Dodge 3/4ton Ram 4x4 made in Mexico.... 'nuff said! #### HiTech ##### Well-Known Member I preferred GM over Ford for years, and have been really hating my Explorer for about a month now (first time I absolutely had to use 'special tool' to replace a water pump). For a good many years, GM products required special tools right along!! You can buy some of them in local auto parts stores. Then there is the dealer service line of "really special" tools forced by GM! Only the dealer can justify to have those on hand! #### tcmtech ##### Banned Most Helpful Member I am looking forward to talking with my GM loyal Friends! They are fun to talk to about anything but quality control issues! If you ignore it it does not exist type attitudes. 'GM is the best! Their warranty service is great! Would Toyota or Mazda or Nissan put in$28K worth of warranty work on a $50K vehicle all within the first 15 months for free??' Well no. They build their vehicles right the first time! If you spent$50K on their products you would have probably gotten two vehicles and still had one tenth of the warranty work done in the first 15 months for both vehicles combined.

Still this will be an interesting deveopment to watch.
If the presidents views that GM (Government Motors now?) is going to make a profitable come back after this I may need to look into buying up a few tens of thousands of shares of stock.

At the rate its going by next week that should only set me back about $50. Last edited: #### HarveyH42 ##### Banned I've never owned, or really had much interest in a new car. Most have been 10-15 years old, well past the warranty, and if it's still running right, probably will for another 5 years or so. Bought an '88 Nissan truck about a month ago to replace the 91' Explorer. Except for having 8 spark plugs, for a 4 cylinder engine, it's something I'm more comfortable working on. Way too much crap under the Explorer hood. Since Obama bought 60%, does that make him the new CEO? #### ronsimpson ##### Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member Now we have the goverment and the unions running GM. Thats going to turn out well. #### tcmtech ##### Banned Most Helpful Member The newest vehicle I have owned is my 1999 Ford F250 super duty. As far as vehicles go its well built and has been very reliable. But the triton V10 is underpowered and a horrible fuel pig! I like the ride and the interior layout is stylish and nicely done. The new Fords look like crap on the inside. For years Chevy had a super interior layout and very stylish design, plus I loved their seats too! WTF happened to that? Oh ya never mind! My 99 is one of the last years Ford had a good interior design and a decent body design that appeals to me. It has had a few electrical bugs though. The main wire that supplies power to the ignition coils went bad and caused a fair amount of problems for a few weeks but when I converted it to propane I found a way to bypass and back feed that circuit without having to dissect a wire bundle the size of my arm. It also has a bad habit of having the auto locking hubs freeze up and not engage when you need them. SO its get out and manually lock them in with a pliers just like the old system. Still, providing a little old lady does not take the front off this one I will likely keep it to the end of its life. However once the loan is paid in full that V10 comes out and my far more efficient V8 460 torque monster is going in! It could power 8000 pounds of overloaded pickup pulling 12000 pounds of trailer at 75 MPH in overdrive and still get the same fuel mileage the V10 gets with an empty pickup and no trailer. Last edited: #### Sceadwian ##### Banned The times they are a changin, always have, always will. Better than the same old same old. #### HiTech ##### Well-Known Member The newest vehicle I have owned is my 1999 Ford F250 super duty. As far as vehicles go its well built and has been very reliable. But the triton V10 is underpowered and a horrible fuel pig! Many of the late model Ford passenger engines are underpowered... the V10 rightly so and has been documented widely. The Dodge V10 is a stable designed motor and produces just 10 ft/lbs. less than the Cummins diesel, but with a different power curve. It's a knock-off of the Viper's V10 but a deep V block instead w/ iron heads, and detuned. GM's silly attempt at a big block truck motor was awful... the 8.1L is a real dog and your Triton is heads above that boat anchor. The GM 3.8L V6 is an excellent motor and was capable of getting a consistent 32mpg in their mid-sized cars like the Buick Century, Regal, Olds Cutlass, etc. That motor is good to 200Kmi or more. That was a winner for them... even the Honda and Toyota skimpy 4 cyl. low emission motors barely acheived 28mpg on a small chassis car! #### tcmtech ##### Banned Most Helpful Member I have read that may times too! The Ford V10 is capable of being very efficient and with excellent power too. But to meet emissions regulations its been so awfully detuned both the power and efficiency suffered greatly. I had a 1989 For Taurus with Fords 3.8 L V6. After I knocked the guts out of the three catalytic converters, took all the baffling and air restrictions out of the air intake system so it could breath, and bumped the distributer timing up about 6 more degrees and it would run upper 20's and lower 30's constantly! I ran that car to 255000 miles! It finally just wore out and needed to be replaced. The drive train was still good but the car was just used up and not cost effective to keep repairing other wise. (1000 mile a week road travel was just getting to be to much for it) I gave it to may neighbors daughter for a graduation gift. She still got a good year and some great driving experience with it before a deer did it in completely. #### HiTech ##### Well-Known Member Try gutting those cat converters and fiddling with the emissions in a state that requires yearly emissions inspections Here in Pa. we get robbed a stinking$35 for a BASIC emissions test consisting of gas cap leak test, a simple fuel vapor purge test , and a visual inspection of the emissions system.... that's it for $35.00! No tailpipe sniffing test either! A ripoff! The$25 vehicle inspection requires much more effort on the mechanic's part, go figure!! The state did not set the emissions inspection prices, however they gave a suggested bracket for garages to charge from and of course all the garages instantly charged the maximum suggested amount! The whole thing is a sham if you ask me. Last year my truck's gas cap seal didn't pass the leak test. They rejected the vehicle inspection until I got it replaced. Guess what? I went out into the parking lot, took off a gas cap from another vehicle, put it on mine and it passed in two minutes! Afterwards, I paid the inspection bill and returned the cap to that vehicle.... end of story, screw U Pennsylvania Dept. of Transportation and the EPA.

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