Frequency Counter Blues

[JimB]

He's also got a couple of other things of interest, one thing that particularly caught my eye is a frequency 'meter' not counter - but same thing ?

Meter, Counter, maybe just terminology, does it have a 7 segment number display, or something else?

Range is 10Hz to 40 Mhz . Given that I'm not into radio things is that range good enough ????

Yes, When you are a beginner on a learning curve, EVERYTHING is useful and interesting, even if it is only to learn what not to bother with in the future.

It's abosolutely filthy and needs a dismantle and clean out before use

Which makes the result so much sweeter when you have cleaned it up and brought it back to life and it is gleaming on your workbench.

JimB

 

[Musicmanager]

Hi Jim

Thanks for info
I found one the same on Ebay, see pic. It looks exactly the same except it's filthy dirty. Don't know if it works or not but not much of a risk !
This chaps currency is beer !
S

 

[JimB]

Yes, that is a counter.
I guess that Thandar called it a "Frequency Meter" because that is its function, to measure frequency. It does however work by counting cycles, so it is a Frequency Counter.

The manufacturers (Racal Dana) of my frequency measuring device, just called it a "Frequency Counter" because that is how it works - by counting.

There are several other methods of frequency measurement which I will not bore you with right now.

It looks exactly the same except it's filthy dirty.

One function generator - one pint of beer.
One frequency counter - another pint of beer.
The sense of satisfaction when they are cleaned up and working - PRICELESS!

JimB

 

[KeepItSimpleStupid]

Frequency counter: Old stuff goes by different names. I had a 3 band (AM/FM/SW) tube Blaupunkt radio that had then m the dial in wavelength, not frequency. Also kc and Mc for Kilocycles and Megacycles and cps before the "change". Within the past few years, I picked up a Keithley good to 100 MHz which was respectable in it's day. The pre-scaller option "/256" is missing. Some tact switches need to be replaced and i have them. I did dig it out because, I wanted to measure the oscillator frequency of a remote control I was building.

Otherwise, I can't remember the last ime I used a frequency counter - at work or otherwise.

I have an HP200C (One of HP's first products **broken link removed**) I have 4 scopes, 3 needing repairs. Two are tiny Tek CRT based 100 kHz scopes. One is a Kiksisui 100MHz and one is a 100 mHz DSO. I've upgraded from a "recurrent sweep" scope and an old Dumont that I had when I was in my teens. The military HP scope weighed 150 lbs. The recurrent sweep came from a warehouse cleanout and (Don't ever tell, the Dumont came from high school electronics instructor) The tiny scopes I'd love to get working. The Tek TDS340 is on borrowed time. It's calibration could die any day. It's stored in a Dallas chip with a built in battery. SO, plans are to replace the floppy with USB (Have parts) and to replace the Dallas chip "Have parts". The process is unsolder, read chip, transfer to another and install i a socket and hope for the best.

The point is, your needs change and so does life's responsibilities. Hobby time is few and far between for me and it more like work, I have an elderly mother in a wheelchair.

My long-term focus is to rebuild a few antique radios. I have the FM tuner carcus from a 1950's Magnavox that I want to restore someday. The radio is AM/SW. I did focus on high power amplifier repairs. So, I have to "collect" equipment to do antique tuners,

A shorter focus is a design I want to sell on ebay for a remote control. The real remote sells for about $150 when available. The effort is slightly beyond reach because of old technology.

So, yea, I have some broken test equipment that was acquired cheap and mostly working, some in an unknown condition because it hasn't been unboxed. I did use the 5 digit DVM once. I finally acquired an AC/DC current clamp (checked out) and a differential isolation amplifier (Not checked out). I have a few pieces of stuff that need minor repairs: A voltage source works without the IEEE-488 board connected, A dead current source (have parts), A zero resistance ammeter (Fixed), an autoranging ZRA ( fixed for $5.00), frequency counter (could try to add a /256 prescaler, need to replace some switches), Two 5 digit DVM's (Work), One system DVM (Calibration issues- NVRAM?), IR thermometer, Multi-type TC thermometer, transistor checker, RF voltmeter (unknown), AM/FM Stereo signal generator (Unknown condition), Differential isolation amplifier (unknown condition), Scopes (as above), Home built variac/isolation transformer, Phillips frequency generator (Unknown condition), handheld frequency generator, Tube testers (one highly coveted), One idea sure test, Two handhled DVM's, insulation tester, a time domain reflectometer, telco/ethernet wire mappers.

Some repairs will require breaking out the relatively new solder/rework station which is always a worthwhile investment.

Lately, I've been doing a fair amount of mechanical stuff. The conversion to digital TV was a royal pain. Car troubles. Drainage system design/build, stucco. Every time something happens, you have to respond to it and then something else happens. My health gets in the way too. Physical/mental abilities primarily vary with the "weather".

I like keeping old stuff running if I can and usually it ends up better than before.

 

[Musicmanager]

Hi Kiss

WOW ! Reading through that list suggests to me that I may not live long enough to acquire that lot. However, I'm happy to go for what I need as I go. I'm very much a novice and the need for function and frequency gear is to help me learn to use a 'scope properly.
I too have health problems, having just been forced to retire from teaching through persistent ill health I was getting very bored and frustrated. But a venture into electronics seems to be providing a new lease of life and the folk on here are amazingly kind and helpful.
I must confess I'm not into radio at all, although I do remember as a child watching my father repair an old valve radio and when he powered it up for the first time the old BBC 6 o'clock pips appeared. I glanced at the clock on the wall and told him, since the two didn't coincide, that he hadn't got it quite right yet because it was only 5 to 6 !!
I have a near neighbour whose F in law was into electronics. He has inherited most of his gear stored in his garage and when he heard about my new interest he's been offering me a pick of the contents. His currency of choice is beer so I'm doing well although I am slightly concerned that I'm not giving him the respect our friendship warrants by not giving him any real value in return, but he is adamant he won't take any cash.

I like keeping old stuff running if I can and usually it ends up better than before.

I think that is certainly true, but in my case I think it's the electronics thats keeping this 'old stuffer' going !!

All the best

S

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

Range is 10Hz to 40 Mhz . Given that I'm not into radio things is that range good enough ????

Should be fine, you generally don't use frequency counters very often anyway.

Multimeter and scope are probably the two most important items?.

 

[Musicmanager]

Hi Nigel

Yes, I appreciate that, but I want to use an FC and an FGen coupled to my 'scope to learn how to use the 'scope properly.

S

 

[tunedwolf]

Nice find, but as the others have said, not used very often, especially with modern techniques of synthesized frequency generation being so accurate and reliable, however as a means of double checking yourself with your new 'scope and generally getting a feel for using test equipment, it will happily serve the purpose. It still has it's place on the bench, and will, one day, be the obvious choice of instrument to use for a measurement

 

[dr pepper]

I have the same sig gen, yes a little over 2mc.

 

[flat5]

Nigel, enjoy your new scope. You can wear ear plugs until the warranty is over or replace the fan with an 80mm cheap one from Banggood and a resistor to slow it down. I did. Banggood also sells very cheap a pack of adhesive heat sinks.
One will fit the -5v regulator. A no hassle installation after you get the case open. A bit of a challenge there. Remove the plastic thing over the power connector and discard it.

KISS, my first scope was a Dumont. I liked it.

 

[KeepItSimpleStupid]

The DuMont was layed out very well.

While on the subject of scopes, this is an interesting read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lissajous_curve

 

[flat5]

Yes it was, kiss. A well presented Wiki.

In 1979-1981 I had a job where I have the memory that we used Lissajous figures to adjust equipment to calibrate fm deviation readings. I cannot find any info about this and have to wonder if I dreamt it.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

In 1979-1981 I had a job where I have the memory that we used Lissajous figures to adjust equipment to calibrate fm deviation readings. I cannot find any info about this and have to wonder if I dreamt it.

Sounds quite plausible, as it allows you to see the phase and frequency relationships of the two signals - I've used them many times over the years.

BTW - every time I read the title of this thread, I expect a burst of guitar music!

 

[flat5]

Ultimate blues song: 'Didn't wake up dis mornin'...'

 

[JimB]

I have the memory that we used Lissajous figures to adjust equipment to calibrate fm deviation readings.

I cannot help but think that your memory is failing you on this one.

Using lizzi figures to compare two frequencies, as in "how far does this frequency deviate from the Standard Frequency? No problem.
But FM Deviation. as in the "depth" of modulation of a frequency moduated radio signal? That I have never heared of.

The usual method of calibrating an FM Deviation Meter is to use either a spectrum analyser or a very selective receiver with a signal strength meter, and watch for disappearences of the carrier and sidefrequencies.
When the modulating frequency is known, it is very easy to calculate the deviation at each disappearance of the carrier or pair of side frequencies.

So, dream on Flat5. Last night I had a dream that I was in China, not sure why I was supposed to be there, but lets not worry about that.

JimB

 

[flat5]

JimB, are you retired? Perhaps you went there to repair the wall.

 

[JimB]

Yes I am now retired.
Repair the wall? Nah, not my thing at all.

JimB

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

Repair the wall? Nah, not my thing at all.

Perhaps to break the wall?

 

[Musicmanager]

Either way, far too testicle for me !

 

[John Roger]

I've ordered a toroidal with 2 distinct 12v outs - I'll get you to check my connections are correct when I've done it before I turn it on 1st time !! I'm going to wire it through a fuse both sides for safety.

Is the toroidal working efficiently ? I am eager to know this as i am planning to buy one. Can i know from where you have ordered it from ?