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Driving a 200khz transducer. cavitation effect cleaner.

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Alexontherocks

New Member
Hello everyone. This is my first post. I am looking for some help to complete what I think might be an interesting project.

I need for several uses a cavitation effect washer. Basically an ultrasonic bath, however the level of thoroughness I need in the cleaning process is high therfore I was thinking of using a boat transducer designed to emit a 200khz wave. It was desgined to be mounted on hulls and connected to imaging devices (ecosonar)

I do not need a precise control nor that the unit is powered to full potential however is there any way to pilot this device at its designed frequency? 200khz is all I know and that the piezoelectric unit has a positive and negative wire.

Thank you very much for your attention

P.s. It is an airmar unit designed for ultrasonic imaging (sonar)
 

ericgibbs

Well-Known Member
Most Helpful Member
Hello everyone. This is my first post. I am looking for some help to complete what I think might be an interesting project.

I need for several uses a cavitation effect washer. Basically an ultrasonic bath, however the level of thoroughness I need in the cleaning process is high therfore I was thinking of using a boat transducer designed to emit a 200khz wave. It was desgined to be mounted on hulls and connected to imaging devices (ecosonar)

I do not need a precise control nor that the unit is powered to full potential however is there any way to pilot this device at its designed frequency? 200khz is all I know and that the piezoelectric unit has a positive and negative wire.

Thank you very much for your attention

P.s. It is an airmar unit designed for ultrasonic imaging (sonar)
hi,
Is transducer about 3 to 4 inch in dia and made of bronze or 2inch dia made of grey plastic.?
 

Alexontherocks

New Member
why did I get a message stating the my post is being checked by the admin? I was linking to a picture.

anyway thank you for your answer...


the transducer requires a 40mm (1.5in) approx hole in the hull. Length of stem 55mm (2.5in) approx. black plastic P5 model
 

ericgibbs

Well-Known Member
Most Helpful Member
why did I get a message stating the my post is being checked by the admin? I was linking to a picture.

anyway thank you for your answer...


the transducer requires a 40mm (1.5in) approx hole in the hull. Length of stem 55mm (2.5in) approx. black plastic P5 model
hi,
As a new poster, Admin will check over your pic's and links before they appear.:)


I see its a thru hull mounting, but whats the approx dia of the piezo housing, I'm trying to get a feel for the power rating.

Do you have a transducer model number.?
 

ericgibbs

Well-Known Member
Most Helpful Member
hi,
If you can get one of these old devices they are designed for driving a 200KHz ultrasonic transducer.

Whats your location.?
 

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Alexontherocks

New Member
thank you, the document you posted is very interesting. I will be looking into the transducer power requirements but it might be reasonbale to assume that it can range in 300w peak power.

Is there an application or "universal" schematic that will be able to drive one with satisfactory results i.e. cavitation in waterfilled container?

I know my questions are atechnical but a friend of mine who prints pcb at home is happy about this project because it may provide some good cleaning for all those pcbs with solder, flux and residues, (I need it for automotive cleaning like injectors, gears and such).

If you can direct me to a circuit I can start building to do some initial testing I would be very grateful.

Thank you again for your responses.

P.s. I forgot: I am from Milan, Italy
 
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Alexontherocks

New Member
I already came across the link. Very interesting.

I would like to find or build the generator itself but trying to keep it simple and cheap. (not too cheap!)

Ecosonars are built in very small packages. usually the transducer plugs into the mapping unit itself. I believe that by switching rom emitter to transceiver the unit can be both.

It should be possibile to build everything in a relatively small package correct?

thanks again. I will provide more information when I can.

P.s. the lm1812 is unavailable where I live.
 

Sceadwian

Banned
The exact frequency that is optimal for any particular part configuration is going to require a widely variable frequency. Simply more parts or different configurations will change the required frequency.
 

Alexontherocks

New Member
with "parts" you mean circuit components or parts I need to clean?

As afar as I know there is only a specific frequency at which the transducer will optimally work and that is in this cse 200khz. Also I simply need to stimulate cavitation effect. As long as the frequency is there (and it should since cleaners work at around 40khz) I should get the desired effect. I basically need to duplicate part of an imaging device circuitry. It should be small and not require not even active cooling as there is none on these imaging devices.

An equivalent for a lm1812?
 

ericgibbs

Well-Known Member
Most Helpful Member
with "parts" you mean circuit components or parts I need to clean?

As afar as I know there is only a specific frequency at which the transducer will optimally work and that is in this cse 200khz. Also I simply need to stimulate cavitation effect. As long as the frequency is there (and it should since cleaners work at around 40khz) I should get the desired effect. I basically need to duplicate part of an imaging device circuitry. It should be small and not require not even active cooling as there is none on these imaging devices.

An equivalent for a lm1812?
hi,
Basically all you require is a 1:1 mark/space 200Khz square wave generator.
A CMOS555 timer configured as an astable, make it slightly adjustable in frequency so that you can trim to suit the transducer.

Use the output of the 555 to drive a P MOSFET, use at least a 12V supply or a 24V max supply to the FET [ Vmax to 555 is 15V]

Mount the P MOSFET on a heatsink, make the supply to the FET adjustable , say 12V thru 24V in order to alter the power output from the transducer.
The transducers I have used for marine work have an impedance of 80R thru 150R.
The size of your transducer suggests a max power of 150W to 250W,pulsed.

The transducer may require a tuning cap in parallel in order tomatch and get the maximum power transfer.

That type of transducer will have to be in direct contact with the ultrasonic tank cleaning fluid.
 
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Alexontherocks

New Member
Thank you very much! I really appreciate all the help. Of course I will post a detailed log with pictures and a description of how it works.

The problem is that unforunately I study law and this is a a "garage" project. If you have a scheme, circuit or description of assebmyl I can start looking to implement your suggestions.

Building something like this from scratch is beyond my current knowledge. However this is a very good opportunity to learn!

Thanks again
 

ericgibbs

Well-Known Member
Most Helpful Member
Thank you very much! I really appreciate all the help. Of course I will post a detailed log with pictures and a description of how it works.

The problem is that unforunately I study law and this is a a "garage" project. If you have a scheme, circuit or description of assebmyl I can start looking to implement your suggestions.

Building something like this from scratch is beyond my current knowledge. However this is a very good opportunity to learn!

Thanks again
hi,
I have contacted Airmar requesting details regarding the 'continous' power rating for the P5 transducer. I expect a reply in about 2 days.

As you may know this type of transducer is for pulsed use, about 10pps, with a pulse duration of approx 1mSec.

I'll post if they reply.:)
 

Alexontherocks

New Member
do you think that this project may work? Could it compete with a small cheap prebuilt model?

I specifically look for high frequencies rather than power. The level of "cleaning power" is what I am looking for in terms of intensity of the cavitation effect on the surfaces.
 

ericgibbs

Well-Known Member
Most Helpful Member
do you think that this project may work? Could it compete with a small cheap prebuilt model?

I specifically look for high frequencies rather than power. The level of "cleaning power" is what I am looking for in terms of intensity of the cavitation effect on the surfaces.
hi,
For you application I would buy a second hand ultrasonic cleaner tank.

If you contact your local auctioneers for auction listings for electronics companies, you could get one for a bargain price.

I think the biggest problem with your build is going to be the winding of the transducer power drive transformer.

I also suspect the P5 is not going to be capable of more than a few watts when run continously.
 
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Alexontherocks

New Member
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Sceadwian

Banned
It's continuous power. Keep in mind as I said though if you want optimal cleaning power you need an adjustable frequency output, the wider the range the better, though you might have trouble finding a transducer that has a wide range. You'll have to tune it for each load unless the loads are completely static. Optimal frequency will depend on the shape of the material being cleaned, how much of it there is, the cleaning solution, even the temperature of the cleaner. The container size effects the best frequency too as any give shape is going to have a resonant frequency.
 
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Alexontherocks

New Member
Uhm I understand. There is no way to power such transducer at continuous power is there? I am researching as much as I can but still have some (many) questions.

Right now this is more of an experiment. I am going to go with a stainless steel container (cilindrical) about 60cm high with an immersion "basket" right in teh centre. Also I have already made some time ago an electronic heater with a thermostat 30-150°C.

So if you any idea on how to make the most out of this transducer please tell me. For example if you believe that it can and should be adapted for some creative "sensor" use then please tell me. The most immediate experimental idea I got was to use it as a cleaner or at least experiment with cavitation.

Alex.

p.s. I don't care if it lives far less than its intended lifespan. It is a good opportunity to be creative and possibily get something useful done with it.
 

Sceadwian

Banned
Transducers are pretty much a one trick pony, not much useful for anything else. Maybe underwater sonar but the hard part with that is the receiver.
 
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