CERN experiments - Tiny black holes

[whiz115]

Recently i was watching an innocent documentary on TV about CERN laboratories, i had no idea what CERN is, so i did a small search on the internet. What i discovered was that they are about to deploy a very important experiment and there are worries that it could hide dangers for our planet. The experiment will be conducted on May 2008.

From what i'm reading, it has to do with the deeper understanding of the matter and they will use a high energy particle collider, (LHC) to accelerate two beams of particles (hydrogen or Lead nucleus beam).

when those two beams collide they will produce many new particles and it is also expected some of them are beyond what exists on our planet or we can understand or know how to handle with safety.

Among what scientists expect to be created are "Higgs boson" particle or "God Particle". I'm not aware or understand what these stuff are, but the most worring of all is the creation of a tiny black hole! which from what i'm reading they hope! (?) but they aren't sure that it will dissappear due to Hawking radiation which if i got it right it is suppose to make a black hole to loose mass and eventualy dissapear.

guys i'm not astrophysicist or nuclear scientist and i don't understand everything i read on Wikipedia and on some other sites on the net...i'm just an electronics hobbyst who takes his first steps...

My question is: IS THIS HOAX? do some guys try to scare people from internet or there is indeed danger? CERN laboratories are for god shake in the heart of Europe! i don't know about your houses.. but mine is on this planet few thousants miles away from the place the experiments are going to take place!


source:

LARGE HARDON COLLIDER
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_Hadron_Collider
LHC FACTS
**broken link removed**
LHC THEORETICAL PARTICLES
**broken link removed**
HAWKING RADIATION
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawking_Radiation
**broken link removed**


https://www.google.com is your friend if somebody needs more sources.

 

[dknguyen]

At least everything would go out with a bang!

 

[Bob Scott]

I just heard that the Rhino Party has decided not to support cleaning up the environment. The reason stated is that the environment has just too much dirt.

A black hole would eliminate the environment altogether! Problem solved: No more Dirt.

 

[kchriste]

Well black holes have been referred to as "cosmic vacuum cleaners". A worse fate than the end of the world would be if some marketing company picked them up and started selling these "cosmic vacuum cleaners" door to door!
You can read about the CERN project here. Check out the FAQ:
https://lhc-machine-outreach.web.cern.ch/lhc-machine-outreach/

 

[jpanhalt]

LARGE HARDON COLLIDER
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_Hadron_Collider

Interesting typo....


Yes, the densities attained will be very high. I read in Science News that the risks had been evaluated and considered extremely (vanishingly) low. There were similar concerns with the first atomic blast about whether the atmosphere would be ignited. I don't believe such risk analyses can actually come up with a value of zero, because there is always an unknown.

 

[whiz115]

well.. from my side i don't know what to think or to believe, one of the sites that i'm including to my sources, asks for donations and i don't know if such thing is reasonable or not, on the other hand if you check on the Wikipedia link that jpanhalt quoted and specificaly at the 25th reference you'll see this

A. Helfer, "Do black holes radiate?", Rept. Prog. Phys. 66, 943-1008 (2003

http://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0304042


also check this link somewhere in the middle.
http://www.risk-evaluation-forum.org/prob.htm

From the above you could probably think that some kind of controversy must be between scientists.

 

[I²R]

Look, we get hit with MUCH,MUCH higher energy particles, in the form of cosmic rays, than anything the LHC is remotely capable of, and has been for the past 4.5 billion years. If those cosmic ray collisions haven't produced a mini black hole that consumed the Earth by now, our pitifully weak experiments don't have a chance of doing so. Relax, people.

 

[shaneshane1]

Recently i was watching an innocent documentary on TV about CERN laboratories, i had no idea what CERN is, so i did a small search on the internet. What i discovered was that they are about to deploy a very important experiment and there are worries that it could hide dangers for our planet. The experiment will be conducted on May 2008.

From what i'm reading, it has to do with the deeper understanding of the matter and they will use a high energy particle collider, (LHC) to accelerate two beams of particles (hydrogen or Lead nucleus beam).

when those two beams collide they will produce many new particles and it is also expected some of them are beyond what exists on our planet or we can understand or know how to handle with safety.

Among what scientists expect to be created are "Higgs boson" particle or "God Particle". I'm not aware or understand what these stuff are, but the most worring of all is the creation of a tiny black hole! which from what i'm reading they hope! (?) but they aren't sure that it will dissappear due to Hawking radiation which if i got it right it is suppose to make a black hole to loose mass and eventualy dissapear.

guys i'm not astrophysicist or nuclear scientist and i don't understand everything i read on Wikipedia and on some other sites on the net...i'm just an electronics hobbyst who takes his first steps...

My question is: IS THIS HOAX? do some guys try to scare people from internet or there is indeed danger? CERN laboratories are for god shake in the heart of Europe! i don't know about your houses.. but mine is on this planet few thousants miles away from the place the experiments are going to take place!


source:

LARGE HARDON COLLIDER
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_Hadron_Collider
LHC FACTS
**broken link removed**
LHC THEORETICAL PARTICLES
**broken link removed**
HAWKING RADIATION
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawking_Radiation
**broken link removed**


https://www.google.com is your friend if somebody needs more sources.

well whiz115, from what i understand is that a black hole is likely to exceed the speed of light, there for warping light (yeah right)

 

[Hank Fletcher]

There were similar concerns with the first atomic blast about whether the atmosphere would be ignited.

How exactly did that conversation go?

testdummy1: Hey, I heard the atmosphere could burn up with this thing!
testdummy2: Yep.
t.d.1: Don't we need that to live?
t.d.2: Yep.
t.d.1: But it's all for the good of science, right?
t.d.2: Yep.
t.d.1: I'm putting my fingers in my ears, this might be loud!

 

[Pommie]

Why is it that people think that black holes somehow suck in other things?

If, tomorrow, the sun collapsed into a black hole then all the planets would carry on orbiting on exactly the same path.

BTW, love that typo, Large Hardon Collider, classic.

Mike.

 

[I²R]

If, tomorrow, the sun collapsed into a black hole then all the planets would carry on orbiting on exactly the same path.

Yeah, but it would get really cold, really fast. And that would suck.

 

[Hero999]

No, they would be flung out of their orbits.

 

[I²R]

No, they would be flung out of their orbits.

No, they would not. The quantity of mass remains the same and therefor the gravity stays the same, as well. The force of gravity is expressed as F = (G x m1 x m2) / r^2, where G is the universal gravitational constant, m1 and m2 are the masses of the attracting bodies and r is the distance bewteen their mass centers. If the Sun turned into a black hole, none of these values would change.

 

[Pommie]

Yeah, but it would get really cold, really fast. And that would suck.

LOL, that would suck.

Mike.

 

[Hero999]

No, they would not. The quantity of mass remains the same and therefor the gravity stays the same, as well. The force of gravity is expressed as F = (G x m1 x m2) / r^2, where G is the universal gravitational constant, m1 and m2 are the masses of the attracting bodies and r is the distance bewteen their mass centers. If the Sun turned into a black hole, none of these values would change.

I get you.

I thought he meant the sun was sucked it to another black hole not collapsed in on itself forming a black hole.

Besides even if it did collapse in on itself then wouldn't it still make a difference to the orbits as the distribution of mass within the sun would have changed?

 

[JimB]

Yeah, but it would get really cold, really fast. And that would suck.

But it would shut the whinging greenies and their global warming!

JimB

 

[I²R]

Besides even if it did collapse in on itself then wouldn't it still make a difference to the orbits as the distribution of mass within the sun would have changed?

Perhaps, at least on a tiny scale due to relativistic effects. But, from a purely Kepplerian standpoint, the only thing that matters is the center of mass, which isn't going to change.

As a practical matter, of course, the Sun is far too small to become a black hole under its own collapse--it's well shy of the 3.2 solar mass Chandrasekkar limit. Even if it could be collapsed into a BH, say, by advanced aliens with Hpyer-Galactic Gravito-Implosion rays, the process of collapse itself would almost certainly shed considerable mass.

 

[dknguyen]

Wouldn't the inner planets be fried since the sun has to turn into a red giant first and then collapse? So it would get really hot first, then it would get really cold. Balance people! What more could you ask for?

 

[rjvh]

yes the world would colapse and eaten by the black hole

of course not

this is just a multi milion (oops did i say milion) bilion dollar project to prove or dis prove that the way we think how everything works on the smallest level that we can imagin

but in fact it won't change our daily lives maby the texbook of the students and the whole elite of the kwantum seince will have sleeples nights if the experiments prove the adapted asumsion wrong

but you and i still wondering what we would have for dinner and we still can plan or holidays

in my opinion the money spend on this research was better spend if they put it in super conduction research that would make an impact and a difference in everybodys live

Robert-Jan

 

[jpanhalt]

The impact of basic science advancement on everyday life cannot be predicted, as evidenced by the enormous impact of such advances in the 20th century on our lives. Who knows, understanding the nature of matter may lead to better fusion power, better superconductors, and maybe even new, as yet unimagined, sources of energy.

I think it is fortunate that the direction of research is in the hands of people whose only interests are not planning for the holidays or getting their next meal. Relatively speaking, only a puny amount is spent on basic research compared to the trillions that are spent on social programs and entertainment. John