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Carson Inverter Wiring Question

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goldenoldie

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The wiring in my inverter has become slightly disconnected. I have red wires coming from the 1) inverter and 2) external battery that when connected separately to the yellow wire will power the lights in the pop-up camper. The inverter is supposed to charge the battery in addition to powering the lights. The wiring diagram on Pg 5 of the attachment (upper right corner) looks like I should connect the two red wires with the load wire. However, there is something in between that I don't understand where two sets of numbers 1 and 2 are. Carson is not in business any longer. I took some photos but alas, my daughter "misplaced" the USB cable.

Would I be better off taking this to a repair shop? Seems like it shouldn't be difficult.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

GO
 

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Hero999

Banned
I'll wait until you post the pictures because it's hard to tell just from what you're saying.
 

mramos1

Active Member
I would snap some pictures. The inverter will drive the lights, but not sure how it will charge the battery it runs off of. Why take battery out through the inverter to a charger back to a battery?
 

goldenoldie

New Member
Photo

I appologize for the quality, but here is a photo of the inverter showing the red wire coming from the inverter winding on the left, the yellow load wire, and the red wire coming from the battery on the right. When plugged into 110 V power supply the wire from the inverter will power the lights. Separately, the wire from the battery will also power the lights. Does connecting the three wires together make sense? When the inverter is connected to 110V, it would power the lights and charge the battery. If it is not connected to 110V, the battery would power the lights?

Thanks again for your help.
 

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Hero999

Banned
That picture isn't clear enough to see, please post plenty more better quality images.
 

mramos1

Active Member
Goldenoldie.. Can you hit the macro (flower button on the camera). Or rest your elbows on something. The picture is blurred bad.
 

goldenoldie

New Member
Better photos

Here are some better photos. Out of curiosity, I did connect the two red wires (this is shown in the photo - the red wire on the left from the inverter, the red wire on the right from the battery and the yellow load wire). The fuse to battery blew, so I guess that eliminates that option.
 

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mramos1

Active Member
Well, my first thought. You have the manual page with the wire hook-up.

Take a DVM (digital volt meter) and see what you have on the wires. You should find 12 volts DC easy with the DC VOLT meter. Label them them (normally -black and +red).

Now disconnect the power input and the battery, and with nothing powered, short an AC outlet and you can find the AC outputs (loads) with the OHM meter.

Guessing the AC input it intacted. Was the input wire pulled to? If so short it and on OHMS find them.
 

Roff

Well-Known Member
Are you sure you have an inverter (DC to AC )? I think most RVs use 12V lights. The big transformer in this case would step the line (mains) voltage down to around 12VAC, which would drive a bridge rectifier whose output would charge the battery. The lights may be powered off the battery, or they could be 12VAC powered. I don't see any indication of inverter components in your pictures.
I realize this doesn't solve your problem, but maybe it will give you or someone else here a clue.
 

goldenoldie

New Member
Thank you for looking at this

Ron H. - The inverter is AC to DC. What you are saying makes sense in that I used a DVM to check voltage thinking that the power coming from the inverter might be AC but it registered way less than 110V...maybe around 12VAC (I thought I must not be understanding something). That would explain why connecting the two red wires caused the fuse to blow. One is AC the other is DC.

mramos1 - I don't follow the last sentence of your troubleshooting method. Could you explain that?
 

mramos1

Active Member
120VAC load center/ 12vdc power converter is what the manual said..

I see 110VAC in, to a couple 110VAC outlets. I see a battery hook-up and some blue wires to what I guess is 12VDC 7.5AMP and 12AMP

You can unplug it all and short wires to see where they go. The wires that came off. Are they just the 110VAC inputs?

Ron asked a good question, is this an inverter? Or 110VAC IN to the AC outlets and a battery charger for the battery and 12VDC output to the lights?
 

Roff

Well-Known Member
For your edification, the name "inverter" when applied to power conversion circuits means DC to AC. What you have is an AC-DC converter. I mention this because others know it, and it might be a source of confusion.
Can you take a clear picture of the area circled below, but slightly from the right and below, so we can see the connections to the battery charger board?
The funny symbols labeled 1 and 2 are the contacts for relay 1 and relay 2. The new picture may help identify where your wires connect.
I'm curious about the yellow wire. The only yellow wire in the schematic is 120VAC. There are none on the DC (right) side of the schematic. What's up with that?
 

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pfofit

Active Member
This device (a converter) allows you to run your RV's 12VDC electrical "stuff" and will also charge your RV battery, from a 120VAC supply. This allows the comforts of home without draining the bat or having to run the engine. If the Auxillary duplexs get connected then you can run some ac stuff.

As stated, the 1 and 2 represent the normally open and normally closed contacts of relay 1 and relay 2.

If the Gizmo is NOT plug into 120VAC, then the RVs battery supplies the power to the RVs extra "stuff" through the closed contacts of relay 1 and 2 and the 15 and 7.5 amp fuses. Nothing else is doing anything.

When you plug in the gizmo into a 120 VAC socket
  • the transformer is energize.
  • the transfo output is rectified and applied to the "electronics board" via wires C and D.
  • relays 1 and 2 are energized.
  • The normally closed contacts that direct 12v from batt to "stuff" are opened, disconnecting the bat from the loads/fuses.
  • the normally open contacts are closed, applying the rectified* power to the loads/fuses,
  • As well, the rectified power is applied to the electronics (battery charger) and the bat is charged.
*Since the converter supplies rectified (pulsating) power to its fuses, you cannot use it for sensitive devices that do not have proper filtering.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Now, your problem.
You have by-passed the relay contacts by shorting the red wires.
The mystery yellow wire needs to be traced back, looks like an add on. Perhaps ground from the bat? hard to see from the pics. If it is power to a device then make sure it's connected to the load side of a fuse.

There appears to be empty spade connectors on the board
  • the red wire from the transfo needs to get to the board (the common point of the open contacts)
  • the other red wire (from the bat?) also also needs to get to the board (the common point of the closed contacts)
Hard to see from the pics, but make sure you have a box clamp or a protective guard on the hole where the wires come in the back of that unit on the right, to protect from the sharp edges cutting into your bat wire. A clamp can be seen on the left side for the incoming AC

Since someone has been yanking out wires, to avoid any nasty surprises or unneccessary light shows, I would also verify that all the wires agree with the wiring schematic that you have there, before you give it another flash test :D

cheers
 
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goldenoldie

New Member
Thanks mramos1, Ron H, and pfofit. Unfortunately I have been called out of town on an emergency and will not be able to check these ideas out until the weekend. I will report back then.
 

goldenoldie

New Member
New Photos

Photo 3 is not real clear but shows the yellow wire on the left spade. Photo 4is just above the spades. There are three black wires on the middle three spades and as pfofit noted the right spade is empty. The black wires go into the fuse sockets, the blue/blue&white wires come out of the fuse sockets and presumably go to the loads.

I shorted an outlet (with neither ac or dc connected) and have continuity with the black wires connect to the spades and ground.

Comparing the parts list from the manual and the converter, I can't find the relay (part labeled "8"). Am I missing something? Could this be why the wiring was altered?

Should I disconnect the yellow wire, put the converter red wire in it's place, and connect the red wire from the battery to the empty spade?
 

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pfofit

Active Member
hi again
Part #8 looks like relay K1 in the "ac component" section looks like behind the brown panel on the upper left with the 15 amp push in breaker.

Should I disconnect the yellow wire, put the converter red wire in it's place, and connect the red wire from the battery to the empty spade?
I do not know or can tell for sure from the pictures. You must check the circuit board and trace those spades back, from the foil on the board to see where/what they go to. You may have to pull the board to see the back if you cannot trace the foil from the top with a good light. It looks like the spade on the far right goes up to an open contact on one of the relays, but I'm not sure

From my last post
  • the red wire from the transfo needs to get to the board (the common point of the open contacts)
  • the other red wire (from the bat?) also also needs to get to the board (the common point of the closed contacts)
From your second picture of your last post, a capacitor has its jacket melted and looks like it may be close to touching the heat sink for the diodes. The exposed cap case looks like it belongs to the filter for the charger or zener reference in the charger and may be common ground as well as the sink.
Nevertheless, you need to determine if this may be due to heat from the sink or a defective cap overheating. Also what is that yellow stuff stuck on the sink next to the cap. Did that cap rupture and spew its guts or is it dust of some sort

Need some history on this thing. Did you just inherit this or what were the circumstances of why your working on it. What was the state of the red and yellow wires when you got to it.

I believe that the bottom portions of the schema are for different models and can be ignored. CAn you check the tag and post the exact model #.
Make sure your ac / dc powers are disconnected when you start sticking your hands in there.
Cheers
 
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