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boosting the car's 12VDC to 24 or 48 VDC

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livehho

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what's the most cost effective way of doing this?

minimum continuous output current: 20A

Inverter and a diode bridge?
 
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MikeMl

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You could add a second generator to the car. 12+12 = 24Volts @ 50 Amps
How do you isolate the frame of the second alternator/generator from car ground? :confused:

Better, add a 24V alternator to the car. They are used in aircraft.
 

MikeMl

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what's the most cost effective way of doing this?

minimum continuous output current: 20A

Inverter and a diode bridge?
A switch-mode DC-DC boost converter could do this; however if you need 20A at 24V and the if the converter was 100% efficient, then the input current would be 40A at 12V. Does your existing car's alternator have 40A of spare capacity? I'll bet not.

You could replace the stock 14V 40-50A alternator with a 100A unit made by Leece-Neville, such as the ones used in heavy trucks or police cars.
 

ronsimpson

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There are other ways but:
To get 24 volts @ 20 amps requires 40 amps @12 volts and that is all you car can make continously.
To get 48 vots @ 20 amps requires 80 amps @ 12 volts. Even if you are driving a SUV I don't think you can get that continously.
 

Diver300

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It would be interesting to know what that voltage is for.

There are a couple of ways to boost the voltage that are slightly different from just the DC- DC route.

Those high current alternators all seem to be hand made, and they even advertise custom alternators. You could ask and see if they could double wind them for you, with 12 and 24 V outputs. The voltage regulation on an alternator comes from controlling the field windings, so the second output wouldn't be well regulated, and you would need an external rectifier.

Another possibility is to find the 3-phase AC connections on the alternator. Usually that is easy, as they are big. You could then run those to a transformer with a 1:2 ratio. You could use one 3-phase transformer or three single phase ones.

Could you change your car to 24 V? Probably not, I know, but I did change a small motorbike from 6 V to 12 V successfully.
 

livehho

New Member
Most of the HHO scams use only 2V to make hydrogen.
I've already converted my father's Toyota Truck.

stock: 18 MPG
after HHO: 26 MPG

Almost 50% fuel efficiency increase. This install has been running flawlessly over a year now.

2V is the recommended voltage per plate gap, not for the entire generator. A regular cell normally operates at 14VDC.

Higher voltages per cell improve efficiency dramatically.. that's why I'm shooting for 24VDC/48VDC

Ie. +NNNNNNNNNNN- @ 24V produces 150% more gas than
+NNNNN-NNNNN+ @ 12V

... I'm sure you know a lot about audio
 
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audioguru

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Nobody has proved that adding HHO to a car or truck improves mileage. They just say so without proof. Less "pedal to the metal" improves fuel economy, not a few bubbles.
 

livehho

New Member
Nobody has proved that adding HHO to a car or truck improves mileage. They just say so without proof. Less "pedal to the metal" improves fuel economy, not a few bubbles.
again..

stock: 18 MPG
after HHO: 26 MPG

..as I said, I'm sure you know a lot about audio
 

ronsimpson

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It looks like you are taking power from the engine to break apart H20 and letting it recombine inside the engine. I just don’t see how that will help much.

On the other hand there are 60 year old engines that used water injection to cool off the engine and gain some power. Much like driving in humid air.
 

tcmtech

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I am rather skeptical of the HHO stuff too but I do know how to run engines on bottled hydrogen and use bottled oxygen as a booster. And they are less than dismal power wise in stock form! :(

Hydrogen does have great power and efficiency IF the engine is built for it!
Its rather like the propane and natural gas conversions. In stock form the gasoline engines get less power and worse fuel mileage. However if you rebuild them as propane or natural gas engines they have great power and great fuel economy. But then they cant handle gasoline.

I have done a number of hydrogen fuel experiments and so far my personal findings are you will need to nearly double the engines compression to get the power out of it. For further improvement a cam change is required. A more aggressive cam will run smoother on propane and also seems to be true with hydrogen as well. The different burn rate characteristics allow for a greater lift and duration numbers while still keeping the engines idle vacuum and RPM's stable.
Also the ignition timing curves for propane, natural gas, and hydrogen are all different than gasoline.

And after that the higher compression will quickly take its toll on the stock pistons and connecting rods!
If you were to take your engine and build it up for hydrogen you will be stuck with it or propane as your fuel source. The high compression, bigger cam, and different ignition timing curve will make gasoline unusable! And even then, once you pass the 12:1 compression mark you will need to retard you ignition and detune the engine just to run on propane or natural gas.

But still I really doubt the added efficiency gained would actually allow you to run an engine on water based in vehicle HHO production methods.

Using wind, solar or utility power to generate HHO and putting it into high pressure tanks for use as fuel does make it really possible to run on true HHO gas. That part is a scientifically proved fact!
 
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