Best way to start making PCB's

[Mr RB]

...
Can one just print it on any type of transparency "paper" from a laser printer? And where can you get the chemicals and photo sensitive boards from?
Thanks.

Someone had a good web page a couple of years back, they were using a UV exposer box made with about 100 UV LEDs.

If I remember right they said that ordinary "tracing paper" you get from the office supplies (or school supplies) store was transparent to UV light and worked fine for laserprinting artwork.

 

[Hero999]

Ordinary tracing paper is good.

My favourite method is to use toner transfer with magazine paper but ordinary copier paper will work.

 

[thorn1]

Ordinary tracing paper is good.

My favourite method is to use toner transfer with magazine paper but ordinary copier paper will work.

I have a brother laser printer and was told that it will not work. I guess the toner is different than others.

 

[Hero999]

Yes some types of toner are porous but some proprietary papers can still be used with porous toner; I know Press 'n' Peal does but I've never tried it because magazine paper works for me and costs nothing , proprietary papers are expensive.

Another solution is to photocopy the image but this will only work if your photocopier doesn't use porous toner.

 

[danrogers]

thanks to Boncuk and everyone that replied. can anyone recommend somewhere to get some bits from in the uk? Im toying with making a UV led box for light exposure because the boards that i want to make are pretty small.

would this be a good route to go down for a absolute beginner?

 

[Mr RB]

For an absolute beginner I would suggest a Dalo pen, and some fine tip and wedge tip permanent markers (Sharpies etc).

You can just draw the tracks on the PCB in a few minutes and etch directly. This is perfectly acceptable for LED arrays and even an IC or two.

Then when you need to do some complex boards you can move up to eagle-laserprint-laminator, and going photographic may be the next step in complexitay after that although there are not that many people bother these days. Once you get to the point where a laserpirnted board wont do you can probably just send files to a fast turnaround PCB house and get double sided plated through hole solder masked etc for the really complex or critical SMD boards.

 

[danrogers]

thanks for that info Mr RB. Whats the difference between the Dalo pen and the permanent markers?

 

[amando96]

for aboslute beginners this software is the best.
google ''fritzing.org''
you make your circuit on a breadboard on the program, and it exports it to an etchable PDF! for the etching i started using H2O2, and cloridic acid, works well, the liquid is transparet so you can see whan its done etching, do it outside though, the fumes are bad!

 

[MrDEB]

I picked up from this form to do a mirro print is to print it using CutePDF printer(free download on web) (its a virtual printer that you print to then mirro the output)
real easy once to figure it out.
for software I like using Expresspcb then using Pulsar toner transfer paper with a laminator (an iron will work to, just need permission from your mom or wife-lol)
using this method and practicing technique I have actually achieved a .006 trace (not very pratical but the Pulsar website advertises that it can be done.
For etching, have used both methods (ucky brown stuff? or muratic acid/hydrogen peroxide mix) I prefer the muratic acid/hydrogen peroxide method.
cheaper, little slower but you can see your results.
IF you order from Pulsar, get their kit but also order some FREE copper clad material. their boards are 1/2 oz copper on some really thin material. nice material to work with. GREAT customer support as well.

 

[Hero999]

For an absolute beginner I would suggest a Dalo pen, and some fine tip and wedge tip permanent markers (Sharpies etc).

You can just draw the tracks on the PCB in a few minutes and etch directly. This is perfectly acceptable for LED arrays and even an IC or two.

That's never worked for me: the ink doesn't seem to stop the etchant very well and it always looks very untidy and unprofessional.

 

[DirtyLude]

That's never worked for me: the ink doesn't seem to stop the etchant very well and it always looks very untidy and unprofessional.

Were you using ferric chloride to etch? I've found that FC is much more forgiving with masks than either ammonium persulfate or the acid/peroxide etchant. All my boards I etched with FC using my toner transfer were clean, but with the other etchants I've been getting some rash sometimes. I've never used just marker as etch resist, so I don't know how much that might be a factor.

I saw an old podcast episode of Systm where they compared a Sharpie marker with a special etch resist pen (I think it was an MG Chemicals one) and the Sharpie won hands down.

 

[Mr RB]

Yeah you have to use Ferric Chloride, but I couldn't think of a reason to use anything else since FeCl works so quick and low fumes and you don't need to heat it.

danrogers- The Dalo pen is a special PCB pen with thick blue ink. Sharpies are good for touchup because they have a finer point than Dalo. Also a big wedge tip marker is good for covering blank areas quickly (which speeds etching and saves etchant).

Here's my "absolute beginner method" from whan i started in the mid '70s.
1. Punch the IC legs through paper. (This also works on printed PCB layouts from magazines)
2. sticky tape the paper on a scrubbed blank PCB
3. use a pointy thing to prick the holes for all the legs of the ICs
4. remove paper and draw IC pads with Dalo
5. draw tracks to join up the pads as desired
6. etch, drill holes (pinprick marks act as drill guides)
7 clean Dalo off with acetone or scrubbing

This is a perfectly acceptable system for simple projects like connecting an 8pin or 18pin PIC to a few LEDs, but like Hero999 said it won't look fantastic with the hand drawn tracks. The good side is speed, you can prick some holes and join them up in a couple of minutes, much faster than making a schematic in eagle and doing the PCB layup, then printing, laminating etc etc.

 

[Hero999]

I was using ammonium persulphate which might explain it.

If you already have a laser printer then there doesn't seem much point in even trying the pen method - I can't see it being anyware near as good as toner transfer, even under optimal conditions.

 

[MrDEB]

thats for sure.
using the toner transfer method ( my preference is the pulsar system ) with the green film to be sure all the pinholes are filled. Another great advantage of using , ordering from Pulsar is FREE copper clad material. very thin, etches very fast.
If you have a laser printer then go with it. why revert back in time?

 

[3v0]

Yeah you have to use Ferric Chloride, but I couldn't think of a reason to use anything else since FeCl works so quick and low fumes and you don't need to heat it..

In my book FeCl is nasty stuff. I will only use it outside or under a hood. We had a spray etcher at the university and all the metal shelving in the room oxidized from the fumes. If you inadvertently inhale the fumes they will oxidize the lung tissue too.

3v0

 

[Mr RB]

Spray etchers can create a lot of airborne vapour.

I've worked in 2 workshops that had FeCl tubs, with just crude hinged lids. There was never any significant problem. Ammonium persulphate with or without acid added is not likely to be that much nicer, I wouldnt't want to be inhaling the vapours of either etchant! The main reason the suppliers (in Australia anyway) seem to be stocking the ammonium etchant is because the shipping restrictions mean that some of the parcel carriers won't carry the FeCl so they just stock the other etchant.

 

[DirtyLude]

Never had an issue or even noticed fumes from FeCl, but I don't spray it either. The hydrochloric acid/peroxide etchant puts out serious fumes, though. It will tarnish any metal around it just from the fumes mixing it in a bowl. I have to be really careful with it and I'm not happy having to etch in my unheated garage.