Automotive - starter glow plug circuit

[MissOrange]

Hi there,
Ive recently been noing some work on my injector pump, when I pulled the IP out a few wires became muddled and now it doesn't crank. This is a CF Bedford with a LD28 from a Laurel (C32). Its had its original petrol engine and the current diesel, its also run off LPG in the past. The diesel starter circuit has had a manual glow switch installed. Currently the system has a glow plug controller, a glow plug timer, a glow push button, and two relays (this is my current labelling of these parts, photos to follow.

Due to frustration with the sea of wires that seem to not go anywhere (from older electical circuits and fuel systems) and are getting in the way of me trying to figure out the problem, I have ripped a few more out. So likely I have a system where I now need to add some connections.

Here is a diagram of the system I currently have. I need to figure out what I need to add to this system to get it to work again! I dont have a factory wiring diagram, I doubt whether any of the wiring is at all as it would have been originally.

On the fuel cut solenoid there are two wires, I only drew one by mistake, not sure where the other one goes to. There is also a oil sender unit (two wires) that maybe should be in this system too (I missed this off the diagram). And in the diagram #4 is I think a glow plug timer not a starter relay.

Here are some real life pictures..

The glow plug timer? The orange on left goes nowhere

Two relay? (the white wire on left relay goes to the IP fuel cut solenoid)

The glow plug controller with the manual push button wires wired into it

From other diagrams I think this system should have a fusible link in it, unless I have misidentified things, I don't think this system currently has one...

So can any autospark geniuses out there help me out?

Thankyou for any help

 

[dr pepper]

On a non original engine with non original glow plug controller, not going to be easy.

My wifes land rover had something similar, I ripped it all out, fitted a large relay and operated the relay from a pushbutton on the dash, no controller no fancy bits, just a relay and pushbutton, you push the heaters glow.
I suggest you do something similar, your system may have never worked right from the start if its non original.

 

[tcmtech]

Yep I agree. Simplify it.

We have a few farm machines that used to have either assist systems to start them. I modified them to have intake manifold grid heaters instead.

For control I set them up with a manual button that preheats the grid as long as I want then has a second automatic grid activation again when the starter turns over.

If you go the manual control route you may need to change your glow plugs over to a continuous/long duty cycle rated type being the ones designed for automatic control tend to be rapid heat type that will burn themselves out if ran for more than a few seconds at a time.

 

[MissOrange]

Hi and thanks for the replies. Simplifying it sounds much better. Dr Pepper When you say large relay, how big? Also, would there be a simpified wiring diagram you could point me to? here is one that seems easier, what do you think? http://www.tb-training.co.uk/images/Image131.gif Tcmtech With the glow plugs I think as long as I was careful not to overheat them I should be ok?

 

[dr pepper]

If the starter switch contacts can handle the current as per that schematic then you can run them direct off the switch, however with the van having a controller the switch probably isnt high enough rated.
I used a starter solenoid, the remote kind, I think mine was off a mini.
You'd be better with permanent duty or self regulating plugs, you can do it with non regulating plugs but you need to pulse the switch, and at diffrent on times depending on the weather and state of the battery.

 

[MissOrange]

Dr Pepper, for the sake of trying to get it started would you have a suggestion for wiring the system as it already is - what extra wires could I put in to make it work? The reason I ask is that Im already in the middle of fixing the Injector pump and could do with minimising the amount of work to do.

 

[dr pepper]

Get a pushbutton that can switch 50 amps and switch + from the battery to the heaters, there isnt a simpler way.
If you just want to run the engine connect a jump lead from the battery + to the wire that runs across the heaters, be carefull not to burn them out, connect to the point where the wire goes off to the existing relay.

 

[tcmtech]

Tcmtech With the glow plugs I think as long as I was careful not to overheat them I should be ok?

I have my doubt based on people who have tried similar attempts in order to not have to pay for a expensive factory glow plug controller for their diesel pickups.

The glow plus that most automotive engines use will burn up in 5 - 10 seconds where as the heavy duty ones designed for the older industrial and farming equipment engines can stay on for minutes without burning out.

The nice part is that the automotive type have the same body and threads as many of the industrial ones so with a bit of patience with a local auto parts store you can find the industrial ones that will fit your engine from something that shares a similar base engine in an industrial application.

 

[dr pepper]

Peugeot xud9, dw8, landrover 200tdi, 300tdi and gmc 5.7's all have self regulating plugs that can be on 20 - 30 secs, if you pull a plug out, google the part number you should be able to find out if its a self reg or not.
The cf and ld were in production for a long time so there may be diffrent variants.

 

[MissOrange]

Thanks for the replies gentlemen. So, I've ascertained the starter works. Still scratching my head about the wiringset up. I'm yet to figure out.... how starter relay, gp relays x 2, gp controller, push button switch, fuel solenoid, oil sender unit, alternator, starter solenoid, ignition wire, all go together in one happy family. I'm go in to make a test light and see if that will help, a voltmeter has been not too helpful.... if anyone can point me to a wiring diagram that involves these components I'd be very grateful. The glow plugs I have have been operated bya push button sswitch, and I've checked them and they still haven't burnt out, leading me to deduce they are a bit more industrial. As currently the push button is wired up to the gp controller I think this means they override the gp controller anyway?

 

[dr pepper]

A testlight is most reccomended, I have found a testlight more usefull than a meter a few times, electronicy people wmight tell you otherwise, a good auto leccy uses a testlight first.
Get a good one, CK do one for a tenner that uses a standard sidelight bulb.