Afghanistan war - a never ending desaster for Afghanistan people and ISAF?

[Boncuk]

In fact there is no war in Afghanistan, but US, German and other nation's soldiers are being killed daily - most of them are US soldiers, not to forget civilian victims.

Having been a full blooded soldier for 23 years I prefer to call it war.

Taliban are no combat troops, but they are simply terrorists, trying to obtain power over Afghanistan. Terrorists can be shot on the spot without any trial according to Geneve rules of war.

They use civilians as shields when preparing their ambush attacks and hide out in their mountain caves for a new attack.

They even stone wives who had been promised after birth to get married to a certain man. If she escapes the man she will be stoned for sure. (proved in latest reports.)

The federal republic of Germany has brought in a new "toy", the Panzerhaubitze 2000 (self propelled howitzer), capable of firing 3 rounds of 155mm shells per minute, changing firing position every 30 seconds and ready for a new round - enough time to escape from the last position in order not to await counter-fire by mortars or similar unfriendly devices. It carries 60 rounds of ammo being replaced automatically by the service truck.

If I were ISAF commander the first thing I'd order would be flattening out the mountains in northern Afghanistan (at least to a level destroying all caves) to leave the Taliban no way of escape - and then hit them deadly.

Russia was also involved in another Afghanistan war and all they got was bloody noses - retreating after 9 years.

I hate the idea of a repetition of that story.

What do you, most of all - Americans think about my idea?

Regards

Boncuk

 

[HarveyH42]

I do believe we should have taken a much stronger, aggressive approach from the start. The terrorist could be anybody, and the civilians are loyal to whoever is pointing a gun at them, or paying them. Trying to fight a clean war, in a country where there is no clear loyalties, was foolish. Removing the troops is going to be costly, and the country will revert back to Taliban control shortly after. Iraq will end up with a dictator, or religious leader as well. We should hammer the active areas hard, and not worry so much about the civilians involved, since most knew the terrorists were there setting up, or even helped out. The Afghan people would quickly learn that letting the terrorists move among them freely is going to bring trouble, death and destruction. They can run off the terrorists, report them to the government, or accept the consequences. These terrorists aren't running around in large groups, couple be just a couple of people, maybe a dozen, not a huge force.

 

[Boncuk]

I do believe we should have taken a much stronger, aggressive approach from the start.

Hi HarveyH42,

you are taking the words right out my mouth. Fighting half hearted will never be successful. In times of war that's what counts. All or nothing should be the choice. A little bit for "all" doesn't make sense, since the Taliban get massive help from Iran, delivering weapons.

Now the Taliban are getting into some trouble - short of money to pay for weapons, since the ISAF has cut off their most profitable business - sales of opium, burning off all the fields.

The terrorist could be anybody, and the civilians are loyal to whoever is pointing a gun at them, or paying them. Trying to fight a clean war, in a country where there is no clear loyalties, was foolish. Removing the troops is going to be costly, and the country will revert back to Taliban control shortly after. Iraq will end up with a dictator, or religious leader as well. We should hammer the active areas hard, and not worry so much about the civilians involved, since most knew the terrorists were there setting up, or even helped out. The Afghan people would quickly learn that letting the terrorists move among them freely is going to bring trouble, death and destruction. They can run off the terrorists, report them to the government, or accept the consequences. These terrorists aren't running around in large groups, couple be just a couple of people, maybe a dozen, not a huge force.

If you remember, there was a big international palaver because of a German commander ordering bombardment of two stolen fuel tankers (each 30,000l of gasoline). 142 persons were killed during the attack, most of them civilians. They simply stole the fuel off the trucks. On the other hand a full fuel truck is not worth much as a rolling bomb. With the tanks almost empty the blast is much stronger than that of a simple fire.

I would have chosen the same procedure to get rid of the tankers before they could have been steered into a quarter of ISAF forces for destruction and death.

I further guess that Iraqi people are aware of their "fortune" awaiting them just looking across the border to Iran, which is the most hot zone in the world presently. Iran will have it's first nuke ready to launch within less than one year - and they will use it! Guess where!

Boncuk

 

[StudentSA]

I do not support war... period!

StudentSA

 

[Reloadron]

I do not support the war as I believe that the invasion of Afghanistan occurred on the false pretence of “weapons of mass destruction”. We all know that the USA and Britain went in, guns blazing looking for speculation. To this date nothing closely related to “weapons of mass destruction” has been found. What is the US troops still doing there?

The Weapons of Mass Destruction was what the US Bush presidential administration sold the US Congress and US Senate on as a reason to go after Saddam Hussein in Iraq and had absolutely nothing to do with Afghanistan.

The reason the US and some allies went into Afghanistan is because on a global basis terrorist attacks were linked over and over again to Afghanistan as it was a known training camp for terrorism in general. That was the logic behind going into Afghanistan and nothing but nothing to do with weapons of mass destruction. There is also a matter of human rights issues but the main reasons behind being in Afghanistan and the hunting down of the Taliban is direct links to terrorist activity on a global basis. There never was a pretense of WMD in Afghanistan. Where did that ever come into play?

People have been brainwashed in the comfort of there homes across the world especially the USA. We go about living our lives in the comfort of our respective cities with not a care in the word as to the plight of people across the world. We have grown to take everything on the media as factual not thinking for a moment what if this media is biased? What if there is a second side to the story? As there always is.

Generally speaking the majority would seem to know the difference between Iraq and Afghanistan beyond the fact they are spelled differently. There is a second side to the story, your geography sucks.

Ron

 

[Boncuk]

Generally speaking the majority would seem to know the difference between Iraq and Afghanistan beyond the fact they are spelled differently. There is a second side to the story, your geography sucks.

Ron

Thanks for your input Ron,

I thought I was watching the wrong movie.

Boncuk

 

[Boncuk]

I do not support war... period!

StudentSA

Until you get it delivered free of postage.

 

[Reloadron]

I do not support war... period!

StudentSA

Real slick there Student SA. Since your post sucked and I commented on it the easy out is to come back and blow away your whole post other than you do not support war. What an easy out. I guess the good news is now people can't see how really stupid your unedited post was. Glad I quoted some of the stupidity.

So you do not support war huh? So if someone comes into your country and blows up a few buildings and murders several thousand people it would be cool with you right? You obviously feel it is quite OK for terrorist to wander the globe murdering people who just don't see things their way.

Again, real slick removing the original post so people can't see what you had to say.

Ron

 

[tvtech]

Real slick there Student SA. Since your post sucked and I commented on it the easy out is to come back and blow away your whole post other than you do not support war. What an easy out. I guess the good news is now people can't see how really stupid your unedited post was. Glad I quoted some of the stupidity.

So you do not support war huh? So if someone comes into your country and blows up a few buildings and murders several thousand people it would be cool with you right? You obviously feel it is quite OK for terrorist to wander the globe murdering people who just don't see things their way.

Again, real slick removing the original post so people can't see what you had to say.

Ron

I am from SA too. Student SA is obviously a person who has gained/achieved under ANC majority rule....

I want no part of corrupt stuff or cutting corners to achieve. On merit is the only way.

Good for him.

Cheers

 

[BrownOut]

When I read StudentSA's post, I realized quickly he had confused Afghanistan with Iraq. Not a big deal; it happens, though usually one confuses Iraq with Iran.

 

[Reloadron]

When I read StudentSA's post, I realized quickly he had confused Afghanistan with Iraq. Not a big deal; it happens, though usually one confuses Iraq with Iran.

I can relate to that and understand that. However, though I do not support the invasion of Iraq I strongly did support and still do support what is going on in Afghanistan. To my way of thinking as to Iraq I figured let Hussein really screw up like when he invaded Kuwait or do something else that actually threatened US interest and then nail him to a wall. Hell, I never bought into the WMD thing from day one. The Bush administration just had a hard on for the guy. Now as to Afghanistan that is a different story. When the USS Cole was bombed while refueling in Yemen 17 American sailors were killed, and 39 were injured. This bombing was brought to us by those nice folks from al-Qaeda who took responsibility for the bombing. At the time the Clinton administration figured appropriate action was to send a few Tomahawk missiles into some useless real estate in Afghanistan. Al-Qaeda does its training where? Primarily in Afghanistan. It wasn't till the attacks on the World Trade Centers and the Pentagon that the Bush administration decided to start cleaning house so to speak. Afghanistan has been harboring and training terrorist for years.

So what tripped my trigger? When SA jumped righ in with this:

I do not support the war as I believe that the invasion of Afghanistan occurred on the false pretence of “weapons of mass destruction”. We all know that the USA and Britain went in, guns blazing looking for speculation. To this date nothing closely related to “weapons of mass destruction” has been found. What is the US troops still doing there?

He just jumps right in and makes that statement as well as others without a shred of knowledge. The focus of the thread was Afghanistan not Iraq. Now if he chooses to make a statement like "We all know that the USA and Britain went in, guns blazing looking for speculation". He may rest assured I will shove his arrogance and stupidity up his butt in a heartbeat. Though I do not support what went on in Iraq there are likely a million Kurds who would disagree with me. There was more to his original post than the few quotes I used in my reply. Then rather than explain himself he blows away the entire post and leaves it to read:

I do not support war... period!

StudentSA

Well guess what, neither do I support war. However, I do believe that there can be a time for war when all else fails. Then you deal with it and do it. Obviously SA does not feel threatened by terrorist, personally I dislike them intensely and would like them dead. Therefore I support this war effort and support it strongly!

Ron

 

[BrownOut]

Well, I guess it goes back to what you said before; everone is entitiled to his opinion. What I read his post, knowing he simply got confused, I didn't find too much to disagree with. I disagree that you can make those judgements about him, after he only expressed his opposition to war. I don't support war either, but that doens't make me comfortable with terrorism. You just can't make that judgement. Face it, Bush didn't "clean house", he took his eye off the ball. I'll never forget the famous quote from Sec of Defense in defense of the Iraq invasion:

"There aren't any good targets in Afghanistan"

Now, that's stupidity for you.

 

[Reloadron]

Well, I guess it goes back to what you said before; everone is entitiled to his opinion. What I read his post, knowing he simply got confused, I didn't find too much to disagree with. I disagree that you can make those judgements about him, after he only expressed his opposition to war. I don't support war either, but that doens't make me comfortable with terrorism. You just can't make that judgement. Face it, Bush didn't "clean house", he took his eye off the ball. I'll never forget the famous quote from Sec of Defense in defense of the Iraq invasion:

"There aren't any good targets in Afghanistan"

I agree to each their own. I just wish he had not blown away the post and explained himself. Maybe next time he will read and understand the topic as well as his reply.

Yeah, no targets in Afghanistan, well no easy targets. Yeah, stupidity defined.

I made my judgment the way I did because he simply blew away his post. That in turn left my post and comments literally hanging in space. Like I said, real slick and an easy out for him. Rather than say "I screwed up" he chose the other out to where it never happened to leave people wondering what the hell I was talking about. Personally I see it as lacking intestinal fortitude (guts) and spineless but what the hell. If you choose to defend him, that is cool with me. When I screw up n these or other forums I come out and say I screwed up. I leave the post and deal with the screw up and excuse myself to wash the egg off my face. I don't blow away a post and leave people hanging. I don't crawl under a rock and let others fight my battle. I admit when I screw up, however so insignificant and eat some crow. I have little respect for those who don't. No big deal because his geography sucks but a big deal crawling under a rock. Then he gets to kick back and watch. All he needed to do was come out and say "I screwed up" "I oppose the war in Afghanistan because" and failed to do so. Not difficult to do really is it? Now if you want to disagree that I can make that judgment, then cool with me. I still stand by what I have stated.

Just My Take
Ron

Ron

 

[BrownOut]

Well, nobody is perfect. I'm not, you're not. I see no reason for name calling and such. Maybe if we calmly explain how removing his post screws up things, and to not be embarassed by mistakes, then he'll be more willing to get it right next time, rather than hurl insults, which does not good at all.

FWIW, 98% of Americans can't find Afghanistan on a map. Everyone's geography sucks.