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A small bit of snow and all of Britain goes to pieces. Sad really.

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nsaspook

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tomizett

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There's been quite a lot of snow in some places, actually - certainly far more than we're used to. One of the characteristics of out climate it that these weather events happen frequently enough for everyone to experience a few in their life, but not frequently enough that it's viable to prepare fully for them.
 

tcmtech

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We're getting ready for a 12 - 24" two - three day snow storm to hit here and it's of near zero concern.

Maybe schools and some non critical business will shut down on monday, while road crews do their jobs, but that's normal too.
 

nsaspook

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There is hope in Britain.
 

Nigel Goodwin

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We don't have the infrastructure to deal with any decent amounts of snow, even many of the snowploughs were sold off a number of years ago. The money isn't there to fund full time schemes, when they might only be needed every few years (or decades), and this year hasn't been too bad - I think 1990 was the last really bad one?, we had no electricity, water, or phones for a week or so. We had a new baby (Melissa) at the time, a few months old, and luckily our next door neighbour has a gas cooker, and she melted snow for us to make up feed bottles.
 

JimB

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It is true that most of Britain does not cope well with snowy winter conditions.

We live on a small crowded island and the roads are generally busy.
If one car or lorry gets stuck, then all those behind it cannot get past and everything descends into chaos.
Many cars here are small, not best for deeper snow.
Just about all cars, including many "Chelsea Tractors" ie 4x4s that never go out of the city let alone have 4wd engaged, are delivered from the factory with summer tyres which are useless in snow.

My own experiences...
Many years ago when I worked in the Shetland Islands for a few years, everybody who relied 100% on the cars in winter, had studded snow tyres on the driving wheels. And so it was with our company cars.
Put the winter tyres on in November and put the summer tyres back on in April.
Nobody got stuck in the snow in Shetland.

Some years ago I bought a new car in January, of course the car had summer tyres and twice in the first couple of months I had problems because of this.
Up early one morning to go to the airport, I was the first car on the road. There was one hill which I just could not get up due to one inch of snow and I had to make a detour.
Few weeks later I had a long drive to the south of England and passing through central Scotland there was a massive fall of snow and I had a lot of problem getting out of a service area after a stop for tea and a bacon sandwich. Good job that I had brought a shovel with me.

These days I have a large 4x4 as my daily driver, it has wintery tyres on all year round, I have had no problem in the snow this week.
I also have a small sports car which has summer tyres, would I take it out in the snow and ice? No way! The back end can be a bit wayward on a cold dry road.

JimB
 

large_ghostman

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Didnt help when America sold us a load of dodgy mortgages and plunged the world into recession, but things are picking up now they have decided to to isolate themselves....

Yeah alot of places got caught out, but one the best things i have seen is no end of British spirit and people helping others anyway they can. But thats one the few things i like about the UK, when the **** hit the fan you dont have to look around to know others are standing with you.

Where I am (literally 10 mile area) the snow has been almost zero, its hit -5C but very little snow. 30 miles down the road it got hit hard, so 4 times i been out on the big tractor and driven 30 miles to deliver supplies or ferry people around like getting ambulance crews to there stations, I used a livestock trailer twice so I could get more stuff down for people and deliver feed for farms. i also pulled out countless cars.... Actually was a bit of a tractor rally seeing as every man and his dog with a decent 4 wheel drive large tractor was there. Its cost me roughly £170 in fuel which i cant afford, but i would spend it again and again and again.

So yeah as a little island we are crap in extreme weather, the only thing that works when it gets bad is the people helping the people, like the people paying for hotel rooms for the homeless out there own pockets. How long since new Orleans got flattened? That still aint fixed, but i guess a small country with a tiny economy cant be expected to put things right.
 

nsaspook

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We love the British spirit.
 

large_ghostman

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Cant beat the Scottish one, especially with a little ice :D cheers lol

On the not funny side, people died. People who didnt need to go out, did go out and went unprepared. First time in history Scotland had a red warning. Have to admit it was a bit scary being in a large tractor and suddenly dropping in snow that came upto the top of the back tires.

Most the way was 4 wheel drive and diff lock on. I have a 40 ton winch on the front for shifting our trees, was real handy for cars that had got stuck.
 

large_ghostman

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large_ghostman

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Love the trade deal, here in Scotland you probably sell us a case of Bourbon a year, they wear kilts not levi Jeans.....In return your going to up import duty on EU cars like the Porsche,BMW and so on....LMAO

I think we will live without Jack Daniels, Levi's were for the 1980's, lets see how many people stop buying porches and BMW's ;)
But you could buy American cars, except you dont make enough steel do it, and hes just upped the price of that.

Maybe a game show host wasnt the best choice ;)

One month sales of EU cars in Jan this year... Thats a **** load of levi's

https://www.statista.com/statistics...-of-european-car-brands-in-the-united-states/
 

nsaspook

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You do know thats just a normal Saturday night in Dublin right?

And what would use use to loot in this snow?
<snip - political comments>
Why do you want to keep making childish political statements instead of a good-natured laugh of how a little weather turns people everywhere into fools at times.
 
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large_ghostman

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<snip - removed political comments>

And what you call good natured about snow is a long way from funny for some, we lived near exeter in Devon (30miles) our elderly neighbors are still there, one seriously ill in hospital and the other cant get to see them.
 
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Ian Rogers

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Love the trade deal, here in Scotland you probably sell us a case of Bourbon a year, they wear kilts not levi Jeans.....In return your going to up import duty on EU cars like the Porsche,BMW and so on....LMAO

I think we will live without Jack Daniels, Levi's were for the 1980's, lets see how many people stop buying porches and BMW's ;)
But you could buy American cars, except you dont make enough steel do it, and hes just upped the price of that.

Maybe a game show host wasnt the best choice ;)

One month sales of EU cars in Jan this year... Thats a **** load of levi's

https://www.statista.com/statistics...-of-european-car-brands-in-the-united-states/
Er!! What the hell has this todo with the thread... You know trashing threads isn't a good idea...

Time and a place LG!! Please keep on topic..

On a lighter note.... The snow here wasn't our problem... The winds that blew it all over the show was!! Roads were blocked time and time again because of the drifts... We are on the west of the Pennine's and the snow was blown over from the east.... It didn't stop for 3 days...
 

large_ghostman

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Er!! What the hell has this todo with the thread... You know trashing threads isn't a good idea...

Time and a place LG!! Please keep on topic..

On a lighter note.... The snow here wasn't our problem... The winds that blew it all over the show was!! Roads were blocked time and time again because of the drifts... We are on the west of the Pennine's and the snow was blown over from the east.... It didn't stop for 3 days...
I had a good laugh at the poor so and so's in devon, until i found out our old next door neighbor is in exeter royal dying (actually he died this morning), his wife of 54 years couldnt get near the hospital because of the lanes where we lived.

our old farm is now a holiday home and no one is there much, so sorry (kind of) but suddenly its really not funny anymore, especially as it seems kind of smug to almost gloat knowing some people are really suffering and dying.

Yes i did call the local police, and the response?..... We cant do anything unless she commits a crime! Nearly told them she was growing herbs on a massive scale. Soon would have had a large number of people of her doorstep.
 

tcmtech

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<snip - removed political comments>

Now for me today, we just had hail pass though and are working our way up to almost chunky snow right now. The big 12 - 24" storm has already been downgraded half a dozen times now down to ~6" - 12" in my area. Darn near golf weather by our standards if it weren't for the water hazards being froze over and people using them to cheat. :facepalm:
 
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large_ghostman

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<snip - removed political comments>

Now for me today, we just had hail pass though and are working our way up to almost chunky snow right now. The big 12 - 24" storm has already been downgraded half a dozen times now down to ~6" - 12" in my area. Darn near golf weather by our standards if it weren't for the water hazards being froze over and people using them to cheat. :facepalm:
For some it was an emergency, for those 12 that died as a direct result of the weather i expect they saw it as an emergency.

We make no secret we are not prepared for that kind of weather, we wont go the global warming route but point made. People i grew up with from birth are badly affected, keep in mind just because one country can cope with something dosnt mean everyone can.

Trains not running because of the wrong type of leaves on the track (yes happened in the UK) is funny. First time Scotland has ever used the red button for weather, i doubt its done lightly, So my personal moral compass dosnt find loss of life funny at all, in fact i loose all sense of humor about it. When it impacts people i care deeply about then goes past not funny and into the realm of people making fun of those that matter to me when they are in life threatening situations.

How well would you take it if i stood and laughed while someone you cared about was in a life and death situation? I admit yes i joined in, but then i look back and realize i laughed because it wasnt me being affected. Then I feel ashamed because as above, i doubt those that died were laughing just before there last breathe.

And the last point still stands, how come you had a hurricane decades ago and still havnt managed to build it back up? Even third world countries do better than that.

To me it seems a fever has spread, people are starting to think power and might is measured by the number of people you can kick sand into the face of. Where i am from strength is determined by ones ability to help mankind at your own expense.

Use that as a measure and decide if your getting stronger or weaker.

Dont take a pop at it in this thread, if anyone wants to take issue with me do it by pm, i am not taking part in this anymore.
Just in case it matters to anyone, Meg my neighbor, while she didnt get to the hospital, the Royal Marines did dig the entire 2 mile lane out virtually by hand and get to her. Her LPG heating which is also used for cooking had run out the day before, but she is ok and thanks for asking.
 
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tcmtech

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For some it was an emergency, for those 12 that died as a direct result of the weather i expect they saw it as an emergency.
I see things contextually and by long running historical comparison. Loss of life is not good but most often there are far more statistics and variables in play than what's being reported. for example.

Scotland has ~5.4 million people and say they all live to 80 years old. By that measure 5,400,000/ 80 /365 = 185 people per day die regardless so how exactly does the 12 deaths come in and from with undeniable proof the storm was to solely to blame. Given the area the storms affected way more people died of other things yet nobody raises the question as to if any of their deaths were preventable.

I'm not downplaying the supposed storm deaths but I also have to fact check the claim against statistical averages and see how they shake out in the mathematical aggregate of plausibility and case by case preventability.

That, and what I grew up in and around, such things play out as being less significant or worthy of major fuss. Back when I was a kid I heard many first hand accounts from my grand and great grandparents and their friends and extended families of what sort of hellish weather and such events they survived, were in some cases a dozen plus people in one small town community dieing directly for ma big storm was not uncommon.

How well would you take it if i stood and laughed while someone you cared about was in a life and death situation? I admit yes i joined in, but then i look back and realize i laughed because it wasnt me being affected. Then I feel ashamed because as above, i doubt those that died were laughing just before there last breathe.
Where I live we deal with life as if there is no one and will never be anyone to depend on but ourselves and thusly the concept of blaming others for one's own misfortune (due to one's own lack of willingness to plan and prepare for the worst likely outcomes) are rather strange to us types. Beyond my house being hit by a tornado in the middle of the night while I am asleep, there is no natural event I and most everyone around me is not in some way prepared to take on ourselves individually or as a local collective.

To those like me anyone who is inadequately prepared, or directly knows someone who is if they are not, to handle any reasonable event life throws at them is absurd.

As for what's funny, I'm not PC so I will laugh at whatever strikes me funny. Even more so if the PC crowd find something insulting or worse. Contrary to what some want everyone to believe, us humans are very expendable, and largely though our own actions/inactions expended, and always have been.

And the last point still stands, how come you had a hurricane decades ago and still haven't managed to build it back up? Even third world countries do better than that.
Because the people like me were not in charge. It wasn't my personal hurricane and our less than capable government, moe to the point, its fools who feel that their social welfare program agendas to help everyone who doesn't really need help, are more important than helping those who truly do need help, was in charge. That's way it did not get fixed properly despite all the talk about doing so. FEMA is a curse word in our country.

Now as for personal blame, I had nothing to do with it and am faultless just the same as you are not at fault for your neighbor even if I could come up with some weakly concocted excuse to put blame on you for not having done something, that in hindsight, could have possibly helped him or anyone else.
My immediate responsibility for the world ends at the furthest point my fingertips can reach just like everyone else's whether they will admit to it or not. Everything I do from there is optional and subjective to the cold hard realities of life regardless of what they may be. I will help those who I can but anyone outside of the reach of my knowledge and ever growing resources is very much screwed.

The reality is storms may be claimed to kill 10's of people a year (out of thousands to 10's of thousands that statics say would have died anyway) but government ineptitude and political agendas that take resources away from those who would be willing to help, if they could, kill thousands a year and it's getting worse and those of us who are even half way prepared for the worst are not part of that problem nor deserving of blame for it.

Now personally as to how people of my area handle things. Well, a few years ago we got hit with what was likely the largest and longest running flood in local recorded history and it got near zero attention on the MSM level after the first few days. There was nothing to report on because we had it covered in spades! Neighbor helped neighbor and we took it on as we saw fit and we did well. That's the sort of community I live in and I don't see why everyone else doesn't want to live and participate in such a community like that either.

Does that clarify things a bit?
 

large_ghostman

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TCM, the main point was/is I got personally affected by a couple who were surrogate grandparents growing up, yes i can get sensitive but in this case it was close to home. So i doubt i can say i am looking at it from a non biased stand point, i lost someone (not down to the storm) very very close to me and his wife couldnt get to him, on top of that the weather very nearly claimed her. So i have a mix of emotions going on, like everyone i get times i find hard to deal with.

I am 17 1/2 and responsible for keeping the roof over my little sister and my mums head, i am self employed but with a great business partner. I just kind of got dumped into the middle of my life with little say in it, so honestly i dont beat myself up when i get it wrong, the only way i have to figure things out is trial and error. As i said i joined in at the start, and i feel disgusted with myself looking back, that dosnt mean anyone else has too, it just means my own situation is different.

I have also grown up surrounded by death, keep in mind we were farmers, we had foot and mouth, pig flu, bird flu that wiped every single raptor we had out, and finally took us under. I then lost my mentor and best friend. So i do my best but i screw up from time to time.

Besides i am more political than i realized, or maybe i am just not buying what people keep selling me on the news etc etc.
that dosnt mean we have fallen out, it just means we have a different view, ok yours is wrong but thats ok :p.
 
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