12DC Sockets

[Muttley600]

Morning CBB

phew, I thought he was going to make a homemade life support with it, it's a radio **broken link removed**

 

[KeepItSimpleStupid]

Yep!! See that nice spot just waiting for it?

The magic eye monster that's already there will have another magic eye to look at.

 

[Muttley600]

So if you change the battery for an external function generator, put the freq at 1k then voltage at 13.7 you get a waveform


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If I was really honest, I found that hard to understand & had to use basic points of what wasn't working

Still don't know how to turn chn1 off

 

[cowboybob]

Try this little circuit with the scope (AND the multimeter)

View attachment 61065

Bring up the scope too;

It'll show you what you should see. (A very nice, 50Hz sine wave)

Best I can tell, the PCB is not oscillating. I know the multimeter says otherwise, but the scope don't lie.

KISS. Could you look the schematic over??. Something in it is keeping it from oscillating, despite the apparently well regulated output, which could be, I suppose, primarily the zeners doing their job.

Something ain't right. But durned if I can see it...

 

[Muttley600]

Yep!! See that nice spot just waiting for it?

The magic eye monster that's already there will have another magic eye to look at.

Wow, how old is that **broken link removed**

 

[Muttley600]

Thanks CBB, got wave, but on the external gen, what is the phase bit for, it is at 0 at the moment, is that for AC **broken link removed**

See, KISS asked for wave on collector of T3, we gave him a wave, nothing is impossible, you (read: me) just have to learn to understand **broken link removed**

I'm feeling quite smug with myself now, I still have lots to learn but boy that felt like a great leap

 

[KeepItSimpleStupid]

Old?: 2012-1948 = 64 years old.

Well, it need about $30 of glass things and new electrolytics to start. They (the cans) will have to be rebuilt too.

The Magic eye tube: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_eye_tube

 

[Muttley600]

Wow, looks very neat, gotta get ready for work now

So do we have to progress to signal thingy to see chart with graph, then what does this chart tell us?
Top & bottom of signal measurements

 

[cowboybob]

Guys, I'm gonna upgrade this box to Windows 7 ( so I can get JPGs of the screen with the scope showing).

It'll take a while.

MAYBE it won't blow up.

Scary, system upgrades are....

Guess I'll be off-line for a bit on this machine, anyway.

I'll check in time to time on one of the others.

Wish me luck.

CBB

 

[Muttley600]

Good luck CBB, took me two days to rebuild & get it working properly again, guess that's just me.lol

ok, last pic before I go, I just had to have another play

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[Muttley600]

Ok, it all just clicked Into place
The freq is the time, the volts can be used to narrow your signal for wave, then the signal thingy (parameters can be altered so wave fills screen giving extremly precise measurements) gives you the graph so you precisely know what your working with, I get it now
It just took me three days to work out how to get wave to work on input, that was all
We can move on now, I'm happy with that understanding if that is right
I'm sooooo late for work.lol

 

[Muttley600]

Do you realise that in covering & understanding the sillyscope has yet again changed my thinking on electric
So volts are not only volts but also provide us with freq, I am assuming current does not have a frequency attached to it?
But that would mean by altering freq, we get radio etc, that would mean there's thousands of minute electrical pulses all around us in everything we use, have I understood that right?

If so, that's a pretty amazing forward step I have just taken in my understanding

 

[cowboybob]

So volts are not only volts but also provide us with freq

Yes, it does. DC - no, but AC - yes.

I am assuming current does not have a frequency attached to it?

And, no. AC current has the same frequency as the voltage (however their phases might be different - that concept is for later - not necessary to contemplate now).

But that would mean by altering freq, we get radio etc,

Yes, radio is dependent on AC (and its frequency) for transmission and reception.

that would mean there's thousands of minute electrical pulses all around us in everything we use, have I understood that right?

Essentially, that is correct. But I might as well broach the subject of waves of energy. Heat, light, radio communications and radar are forms of "wave" energy. This is energy that has no mass (unlike an electron, which does). But for for the moment, your understanding is fine.

NOTE: While I'm at it, I want to point out that the PCB circuit, for all intents and purposes, is not oscillating. There may be some ripple you're seeing with the scope (although I cannot reproduce it) and that is stumping me, but not what you'd expect for a properly working oscillator in a circuit like this (switching power supply).

And I don't know, for sure, what the circuit should look like, frankly. Something is not right. I've asked a EE type professor (Dr. Mark McKinney) at the Citadel:

www.Citadel.edu

to check out the circuit and tell me what's going on. I know it appears to be working properly, but the fact I can't see a meaningful oscillation, and the fact that the whole circuit draws almost 2A with practically no load, gives me pause. [EDIT] Although it is a bucking circuit, so maybe that's not so weird.

But, I just don't know, and I'm having a lot of difficulty finding a similar circuit on the web.

And KISS, I'll take any and all suggestions you have, please.

I'll let you know what I hear back.

But your understanding of this new hobby is progressing very nicely.

 

[Muttley600]

CBB, did you change the battery for a function generator? It took me 3 days to get that bit, then record the ripple your seeing on scope & reduce to 1/2v, then in recorder you get a wave

Glad I'm getting there smoke over, back to work.lol

 

[cowboybob]

I did for the AC example.

Don't miss post # 493!!

 

[Muttley600]

Did you change the function generator to 13.7v, I left the phase at 0 & put 1kHz freq in

I've read post 493, it will be very exciting to understand

Nearly finished work for the day. Yippee

 

[KeepItSimpleStupid]

Right now, we have to sort of ignore AC. Leave those worms in the can for now.

Ohms law works for AC when all of the t's are crossed and the i's are dotted.

 

[cowboybob]

Did you change the function generator to 13.7v, I left the phase at 0 & put 1kHz freq in

It would help if you included information like: which schematic are we talking about?

And are you referring to a Voltage Generator (VG) (because there is a "Function Generator", but it's under the T&M menu and I don't think we've used one here so far): or the VG that's in the basic scope schematic - an AC VG, R1, gnd and (Voltage Pin) VF1?

Reason I ask is that we have swapped a bunch of schematics and it tough keeping track of which one we're talking about.

I know: I'll start putting a name on the schematic to ID it. That might help. Like this:

View attachment 61088

If you construct this circuit exactly as it appears, and set the instruments as they are displayed, you should get the exact same results.

CBB

 

[KeepItSimpleStupid]

Make zero volts the x-axis. As for the real circuit, see if you can measure the battery voltage (straight line). Then reverse the probes. The solid trace should go above and below the axis the same amount.

 

[Muttley600]

Right now, we have to sort of ignore AC. Leave those worms in the can for now.

It would help if you included information like: which schematic are we talking about?

This one, when recorded wave looks quite good Edit: MUTT01

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what looks small on scope & recorder to start with you can alter on recorder to narrow volts & look like this: MUTT02

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And are you referring to a Voltage Generator (VG) (because there is a "Function Generator", but it's under the T&M menu and I don't think we've used one here so far): or the VG that's in the basic scope schematic - an AC VG, R1, gnd and (Voltage Pin) VF1?

VF1 is the voltage pin on collector of T3: MUTT03

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Reason I ask is that we have swapped a bunch of schematics and it tough keeping track of which one we're talking about.

I know: I'll start putting a name on the schematic to ID it. That might help. Like this:

View attachment 61088

If you construct this circuit exactly as it appears, and set the instruments as they are displayed, you should get the exact same results.

CBB

There do seem to be a lot flying about & names seem sensible, happy to learn on AC as long as we cover what the components are doing & how they are working which is what I was trying to do on other sim

So far I started with thinking a PNP/NPN was some kind of switch, now I'm seeing them as not only a switch but some kind of voltage/freq adjuster which would make sense them being called transistors & i bet I still dont know the whole story on them yet **broken link removed**

Right I'm off to play with your new sim now

Edit: you got 7 loaded quick, I'm sending my pc to you next time **broken link removed**