Who is Thilo Sarrazin?

[Boncuk]

The name might be unknown to the "rest of the world", but it is well known in Germany.

Thilo Sarrazin is a former finance senator of the city of Berlin, having been pushed to obtain a job at the federal bank of Germany because his opinions were too strange in the eyes of SPD politicians.

Doing his job alright at the bank he wrote a book about immigrants using Germany to make their living without the will to adapt to german rights and laws, just accepting the support money being payed by the German government. Most of them are muslims.

I experienced immigrants from Egypt driving cars like "Audi 100" or "BMW 2500". They laughed their asses off for the dumbness of German officials allowing them rich payment for doing nothing!

Thilo Sarrazin just mentioned the truth about 80% of the immigrants and the resulting economical consequences.

Muslims living in Germany multiply themselves at a speed three times higher than Germans do. (this is a fact!)

Within 200 years he calculated, Germans will populate about 6.25% of Germany while the rest will be flooded with muslemic immigrants.

In the opinion of German citizens (more than 90%) he is completely right, but politicians and the press made it a show of how to execute an unwanted person by using the ancient laws of inquisition!

They even use our newly elected president to kick him out of business at the federal bank.

I just hope he will see the truth and reject firing Mr. Thilo Sarrazin.

If it comes to that our president will certainly not live in the president's palais any longer.

Germany is waking up telling the politicians the way to go.

How about the "rest of the world"?

Time is due!

Regards

Hans

 

[Reloadron]

Time is due!

I am sorry I have to strongly disagree with you on that note. The time is long overdue!

We see it here in the US also and it gets old.

Ron

 

[Boncuk]

I am sorry I have to strongly disagree with you on that note. The time is long overdue!

Ron

Hi Ron,

sorry that I haven't emphasized the story enough to make you agree.

In the meanwhile Mr. Sarrazin has resigned from the Federal Bank to save the president's head.

If he had not done it the president would be in "deep ****" making a decision on the will of political parties, an absolute NO-NO for a German president.

He would have been fired (stoned) by the German public.

(The president of the Federal Republic of Germany has no political power, but just representative tasks being absolutely neutral towards political parties.)

Additionally he is absolutely worthless in times like these. He lives in a "Schloss" being paid by tax, costing the German tax payers Millions of EURO per year. (Schloss Belevue)

Boncuk

 

[cr0sh]

Sigh - I often wonder whether there will ever come a time when humanity moves beyond this racist, bigotted rhetoric...

Seriously; forget their ethnicity, forget their religion, forget everything but that they are a human being: If these immigrants are in some manner breaking the law, as agreed upon by your elected representatives and agents thereof, then prosecute the offender(s). If your elected representatives aren't doing their job, vote them out. If they too are breaking the law, they should be prosecuted. If they are all in collusion and breaking the law - from the highest to the lowest - well, hope you have guns and a will for revolution; otherwise you are hosed, and all the complaining about it will get you nowhere...

If these immigrants are living and coexisting with you peacefully, and otherwise respecting the law, what business is it of yours to deprive them in any way? Because they are "taking advantage" of programs put into place by your elected representatives and the citizens? Would it be less of a problem if more of the citizens (sans immigrant community) were "on the dole"? Maybe these programs are the problem...? Here's a question: Why aren't you taking advantage of them yourself, if you think they are living so great on the services?

Let's be honest here: You hate them because they are Muslim, you hate them because they are "the Other". Its simple bigotry and racism; should they all leave tommorow, you would find someone else to hate - perhaps your fine, upstanding Jewish neighbor...right?

Damn - one would think we would have learned our lessons in this world in the past 100 years; one would think we would've moved beyond this pap now that we're in the 21st century. These attitudes, posturings, hate and intolerance must be banished from humanity, if we are to have any hope to make it on (and off) this planet...

 

[BrownOut]

Oddly, the thread was started by an immigrant...

 

[gabeNC]

Sigh- I often wonder when there will come a time when people will realize it has very little to do with racism or ethnicity but observing and enforcing immigration laws/reform.

 

[Reloadron]

Hi Hans

In my own sarcastic way I was strongly agreeing with you. You stated the time was due and my reply was the time is overdue.

As to comments of racism. I don't see it as racism at all. I have problems with people who take without giving in return. Here in the US there are social programs supporting them using the dollars of hard working taxpayers. I don't discriminate in my thinking at all. I simply dislike people who give nothing and feel they are owed something. I have problems with elected officials thinking we should be giving them something for nothing and supporting them. I dislike all of these people equally without regard to religion or race.

Ron

 

[BrownOut]

In industrialized countries, people always want someone else to do every dirty, back-breaking unskilled and laborious job, and then howl like wolves when those who do the dirty work want to educate their children or get basic medical attention. At the same time, those who gripe the most continue to support businesses the use immigrant labor. If immigration, legal or otherwise, didn't benefit the natives, it would be stopped. As the economy of the US has failed to produce enough jobs for everyone, fewer immigrants are seeking the scarce jobs that are left.

But the OP brings up an interesting point, and traditional populations are changing. I was reading about how a little Scottish village has been "invaded" by Americans, Canadians and Arabs, and how the whole population is now vastly different from what it was for generations. This is something happening all over the world now, just visit the US southwest and see, or many of the urban centers. Some people despise change, others embrace it. This is a debate that will go forever.

The US is truly a nation of immigrants. In the early days, first generation immigrants fought against immigrants who came later. The issues were the same, fears about those who would provide low-wage labor and take away jobs. Of course the capitalists embraced it just as they do today. The movie "Gangs of New York", although an overblown, Hollywood production, touched on some of these issues of early US immigration, and is worth a view, for the first hour of the movie anyway.

 

[Boncuk]

Oddly, the thread was started by an immigrant...

The only odd thing about your remark is that: I'm living in Thailand as non-immigrant with an annually renewable visa (even if married to a Thai wife) on basis of a retirement visa, having to prove an annual minimum income or a fixed (pretty high) deposit on a Thai bank account. Theese savings are not be touched (not even widthdrawn partly) as long as you intend to stay in Thailand and the interest rate is max 1.5% p.a. and the amount is in a region no Thai worker will earn all his life long. (TBT 800,000 = US$25,000).

He could do it if he gains the corresponding age working 22 years (7 days a week) without using any money to make his living and of course do not buy any clothes, soap or tooth cream, earning 3,000TBT per month - which is already midrange income.

Greetings

Boncuk

 

[Reloadron]

The only odd thing about your remark is that: I'm living in Thailand as non-immigrant with an annually renewable visa (even if married to a Thai wife) on basis of a retirement visa, having to prove an annual minimum income or a fixed (pretty high) deposit on a Thai bank account. Theese savings are not be touched (not even widthdrawn partly) as long as you intend to stay in Thailand and the interest rate is max 1.5% p.a. and the amount is in a region no Thai worker will earn all his life long. (TBT 800,000 = US$25,000).

He could do it if he gains the corresponding age working 22 years (7 days a week) without using any money to make his living and of course do not buy any clothes, soap or tooth cream, earning 3,000TBT per month - which is already midrange income.

Greetings

Boncuk

So what you are saying is that Thailand has an anti-freeloader policy in place. I like that.

Ron

 

[BrownOut]

I fail to see how being rich changes the meaning of immigration. More often in history, native populations are displaced by wealthier, more powerful people than the other way round.

 

[Boncuk]

Sigh - I often wonder whether there will ever come a time when humanity moves beyond this racist, bigotted rhetoric...

I don't think those boots fit me. I'm neither racist nor a bigotted rhetoric "priest" I suggest to go to Germany and study the Islamic Ghettos of Berlin, Hamburg, Munich and Essen. Don't go there without a proper number of bodyguards.

Seriously; forget their ethnicity, forget their religion, forget everything but that they are a human being: If these immigrants are in some manner breaking the law, as agreed upon by your elected representatives and agents thereof, then prosecute the offender(s). If your elected representatives aren't doing their job, vote them out.

What a naive remark! Have you tried to kick out a politician who will not be replaced by a double within a short time? Politicians of all coleurs in Germany are the same - no matter if they are CDU, CSU, FDP, Green Party or any other. If there are new elections the old mistakes will not be corrected, but hundreds of new ones will be made within shortest time like it were an olympic discipline to get the highest pile of useless new laws.

If they too are breaking the law, they should be prosecuted. If they are all in collusion and breaking the law - from the highest to the lowest - well, hope you have guns and a will for revolution; otherwise you are hosed, and all the complaining about it will get you nowhere...

Pretty naive again. To start a revolution you should not only have the complete police behind you, but also the military. Hand held weapons will be toys in a civil war. It takes at least 500 pieces of 250mm howitzers to destroy the government command centers within shortest time and arrest the gangsters of politicians.

If these immigrants are living and coexisting with you peacefully, and otherwise respecting the law, what business is it of yours to deprive them in any way? Because they are "taking advantage" of programs put into place by your elected representatives and the citizens? Would it be less of a problem if more of the citizens (sans immigrant community) were "on the dole"? Maybe these programs are the problem...? Here's a question: Why aren't you taking advantage of them yourself, if you think they are living so great on the services?

No again! They are not living in peaceful coexistence, but behave like invadors not respecting anybody except their family members, although they very often also have problems with that. They kill their sister not willing to marry the man she was promised to - for example.

And once again: I suggest you travel to Germany and collect your own observations.

Let's be honest here: You hate them because they are Muslim, you hate them because they are "the Other". Its simple bigotry and racism; should they all leave tommorow, you would find someone else to hate - perhaps your fine, upstanding Jewish neighbor...right?

To be honest: I lived in Turkey for 42 months amongst Muslims and had absolutely no problems with them. Firstly I integrated myself into the community, and secondly I did my job more than well.

Religion has never been a problem for me since I'm atheist. Religions have probably been invented for those who can't afford cannabis, crack or heroine. My common sense tells me that it's not good to shoot somebody just to watch him die (as the holy bible says "5. You shall not kill.").

Damn - one would think we would have learned our lessons in this world in the past 100 years; one would think we would've moved beyond this pap now that we're in the 21st century. These attitudes, posturings, hate and intolerance must be banished from humanity, if we are to have any hope to make it on (and off) this planet...

Sorry, I'm not quite at this age.

Additionally you're blowing the same horn as those who massacred Thilo Sarrazin with their "political correctness" (correct interpretation: "Lie as good as you can before somebody notices it.")

All of a sudden all political parties have printed a new slogan on their banners: "Let's improve immigrant laws"

And time for that was really overdue. Those problems has been known since 1960, but no elected government has ever thought about improving immigrant laws.

Please study your own ones before you argue about those which you obviously have no idea about.

Regards

Boncuk


Personal note: Mr Sarrazin has certainly caused an avalanche in German politics and that is certainly what he intended. Otherwise none of the steadily fattening politicians would have got out his sofa to something useful for Germany.

 

[Boncuk]

Sigh- I often wonder when there will come a time when people will realize it has very little to do with racism or ethnicity but observing and enforcing immigration laws/reform.

Hi gabeNC,

don't think too much about racism or ethnicity.

When I was instructor in the GAF (German Air Force) I also had Nigerian students attempting to learn flying. During the course they had of course to pass tests.

One of them was a 100% bust - graded unsuccessful by me and acknowledged by my boss. The student asked me: "Sir, do you want to discriminate me?"

So a statement or a question is always hard to interpret, depending on the position - left or right?

BTW, none of them would have had the chance for immigration in Germany. They set their barracks room on fire when Ramadan was finished and they fried a lamb in their room putting charcoal on fire on the wooden floor.

The fire brigade messed up their meal by crushing the windows and blow water through the room.

Boncuk

 

[Boncuk]

So what you are saying is that Thailand has an anti-freeloader policy in place. I like that.

Ron

Hi Ron,

I don't know what anti-freeloader means, but I know the intentions of the Thai government.

They don't want to import social problems under any circumstances. I like that, too.

Hans

 

[Mikebits]

Freeloader

 

[gabeNC]

Boncuk, my post was a somewhat sarcastic response to Cr0sh, using nearly the same sentence structure as his blanket rhetoric blaming racism where none exists.

Great story about the flight school, gave me a chuckle. Makes me kinda miss the USAF.

 

[BrownOut]

For the record, I agree with Cr0sh, the thread is laced with blatant racism. I spent many years in Germany, so nobody can use the cop out that I don't know what I'm talking about. To be honest, I've know many Germans who are drunks, and many Arabs who are industrious ( due to my career, in which I've worked with people from all over the globe )

If my comments sound racist, then so be it. My point is nobody really has a biases for feeling superior based on their race or national origin, though many do.

 

[Boncuk]

For the record, I agree with Cr0sh, the thread is laced with blatant racism. I spent many years in Germany, so nobody can use the cop out that I don't know what I'm talking about. To be honest, I've know many Germans who are drunks, and many Arabs who are industrious ( due to my career, in which I've worked with people from all over the globe )

If my comments sound racist, then so be it. My point is nobody really has a biases for feeling superior based on their race or national origin, though many do.

What are you talking about? I guess you missed the theme by 100%!

Am I a racist trying to keep political decisions about Germany to Germans?
Am I a racist complaining about maroding Arabs performing private races on public streets endangering Germans?

On the other hand I know well that I'm a guest in Thailand and have to keep to written and unwritten laws of behaving like one. If I try to influence Thai policies I will certainly end up in jail and be deported after my penalty.

Germany is more than generous towards foreigners, which I can not say about the policies of the USA. Study your own immigration laws before you argue any more!

I'm not not talking about illegal immigrators!

BTW, having lived in California for 20 months I saw an army of drunks!

Boncuk

 

[Reloadron]

Possibly I am a little slow on the uptake here but exactly where in this thread has racism surfaced or to be specific please point me to blatant racism.

Like many here I have lived and worked in countries well outside the US where I happen to be from. Granted as a US citizen working abroad I worked in these countries with a job.

Early on in my international travels and living abroad I learned a few things and established a few rules I lived by.

First and very important it wasn't my country, I was there as a guest of a foreign government and the peoples of that country. I remained well clear of their politics and political beliefs. I never voiced an opinion as to how they should run their country. I also never discussed US politics as I didn't want my host to for a moment think I spoke for all US citizens in my political beliefs.

I made it a point to study their culture. Armed with an understanding of their culture made it easier for me to understand their actions and beliefs. This led to a distance from religion. I never discussed or mentioned religion and if a host person mentioned it I simply had no comment. Any religious beliefs I may have had were just that, they were mine and theirs were theirs.

With religion and politics out of the way I moved on to other important matters.

Learning the language was important. Pointing to my crotch and doing a dance is not the best way to ask where the bathroom or toilet is located. The more you learn the language of your host country the better you can effectively communicate with your host people. I owed it to my host to learn their language as after all it is their country I am in as a guest. When you are going to be someones guest you should place the time and effort into learning their language.

Learn their laws! I was never in a country where I felt their laws were stupid or made no sense. I wasn't there to critique their laws or judicial system. I had a responsibility to abide by and honor their laws. I followed the laws and never questioned them. I recall Singapore as having among the strictest laws I ever came across and meting out strict punishment very timely for violating their laws.

Boncuk's comments were right on target:

Germany is more than generous towards foreigners, which I can not say about the policies of the USA. Study your own immigration laws before you argue any more!

Germany was among the host countries I enjoyed visiting very much. I liked the food and the cleanliness of Germany as well as the hospitality. Granted I wasn't there as an immigrant but it was an enjoyable place to be with excellent food and beer.

Now as to US immigration laws, they can be strict but the latest problem seems to be enforcing the laws. That becomes another story.

Overall I feel if someone is going to visit another country for an extended period of time (as in live there) or migrate to another country permanently they have a responsibility to that host country. Learn the language and abide by the laws for starters. If someone chooses not to learn the language and learn and abide by the laws pack your toys and go home! Do not become any form of burden on your host country and be productive.

I also don't see any of Boncuk's post as racist or out of line. Boncuk is a German citizen and he is complaining because in his opinion he is seeing his homeland being overrun and destroyed by people going there and not abiding by the laws or customs of Germany. He shares the same anger I feel as I see the same happening in my country. He is upset with a government that is not working to squelch the problem much as I am upset with a government that chooses not to enforce US immigration laws. He is merely voicing his view and position on something that rightfully upsets him.


Just My Take
Ron

 

[BrownOut]

Are you a farmer? Do you grow your own food?
If not, do you buy your food at a supermarket, like 99% of the population does?
If you buy your fruits, vegetables, etc at the supermarket, do you check with the manager and make sure that the food was grown, gathered and transported by people who have learned English?

I don't have so much of a problem with Boncuk complaining about immigration policy. But his description of Muslims smacks of racism. But anyway, I've lived in Germany and many of the Germans I knew were drunks. So does that mean all Germans are drunks? Well, if I adopt the group think, then I could conclude that to be true. I would be engaging in the same racism that I see prevailing on this thread ( and others ) Well, not racism per se, but chauvinism for sure. And I say once again; the Arabs I've worked with are industrious, well mannered and law-abiding people.

Boncuks hero sounds suspiciously like the many professional racists in the US that jam the AM airwaves and Fox News with vitriolic hatred. Hate is such an easy emotion to drum up, and many Americans fall too easily into that trap.

Each time someone comes on here to trash a group of people biased on their race, it will be seen as racism by many, there is just no way around that. It's a slippery slope that's best avoided.