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MIT enters the game? Overunity after all?

Discussion in 'Mathematics and Physics' started by atferrari, Apr 3, 2015.

  1. atferrari

    atferrari Well-Known Member

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    Is the MIT people riding the verge after all? ??? ???

    http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2012-03/09/230-percent-efficient-leds

    Recalling loosely what Don Lancaster amongst others used to say, if true, it could be that we will need to:

    Redefine what overunity is.
    Find a way to measure this more accurately (or should I say in a proper way?).
    The Chambers to pass an ammendement to the Laws of Thermodynamics.

    Otherwise... Bedini, Kinato or one of the so many out there.
     
  2. ronsimpson

    ronsimpson Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    First, pW is almost zero.
    Second:
    You cant create energy out of nothing. It is taking energy from ambient heat in the room, you need energy to heat the room to the desired temperature. Its like putting a steam engine in a room thats over 100C, then taking a small battery which adds just the slightest amount of electricity, and saying your engine has an efficiency of over 100%.
     
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  3. alec_t

    alec_t Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Brilliant! A self-powered fridge light :).
     
  4. dave

    Dave New Member

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  5. MikeMl

    MikeMl Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    By this standard, a solar panel is infinitely efficient. I.E., it harvests energy that would go to waste if the panel wasn't there...

    Atfrer, didn't you love how you were treated at AAC?
     
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  6. tvtech

    tvtech Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    ^^cross

    Never mind.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2015
  7. JimB

    JimB Super Moderator Most Helpful Member

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    MikeML said:
    The rules here at ETO, say:
    So, we are open to level headed scientific discussion of these topics.

    JimB
     
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  8. JimB

    JimB Super Moderator Most Helpful Member

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    It occurs to me that if a "lamp" could be made which also cooled the ambient air and used the energy extracted from the air to produce extra light, that would be very useful as a form of air conditioning which could find application in warm countries, (Not necessarily all that useful in the UK!).

    JimB
     
  9. tvtech

    tvtech Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    And that is exactly why ETO rocks. No can't say this or do that...all adults here. Good stuff.
    I always try to remember the fact that as a Forum, we help people. They come here for OUR help. We don't beg them to ask questions...they come with the begging bowl..to us.

    Some leave, some stay. Good ones stay and time wasters leave.

    Hows that?

    Regards,
    tv
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2015
  10. atferrari

    atferrari Well-Known Member

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    Well, let it be. I lost an oportunity to maybe hear qualified opinions there.
     
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  11. tvtech

    tvtech Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Hi At

    They are not allowed to discuss anything like that there...hence whatever happened to you.

    And BTW..I lasted "there" about one day. I asked a simple tv question...testing the water....
    Replies were eager but waaay off the mark. And then they gave me crap.

    So, scrambled my login stuff and tossed it...still lurk there though.

    Regards,
    tv
     
  12. Nigel Goodwin

    Nigel Goodwin Super Moderator Most Helpful Member

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    MIT seem to be putting out some utter crap these days, it's like they haven't done anything recently that's newsworthy so just issue any rubbish press release.
     
  13. DerStrom8

    DerStrom8 Super Moderator Most Helpful Member

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    Just a bunch of students with a misguided sense of how energy works. Hey, nobody's perfect! :D:p

    EDIT: After re-reading my post I feel I should clarify that I have absolutely nothing against students. It's just annoying when they don't do their research first before making such bold claims ;)
     
  14. tvtech

    tvtech Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Bit off topic here..

    Taking the Ritar SLA into deep discharge. They (Ritar) say every three Months you need to do this. Been three Months.
    S0, I need to bring this battery down to around 11Volts with it's constant load.....65AH needs 6.5A load to do the 10 Hour rated thing.

    I love this testing. Huh...:):):):)no more wires and stuff lying everywhere. Learned my lesson :cool:

    Regards,
    tv
     
  15. killivolt

    killivolt Well-Known Member

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    Not in the summer months at my house; if I could convert all that heat to stored energy; I wouldn't need a swamp cooler.


    kv
     
  16. nsaspook

    nsaspook Well-Known Member

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    ronsimpson is right on target.
    If over-unity means getting more energy that was expended to get that energy in isolation to the rest of the universe and it's source then eating a steak is over-unity.
     
  17. MrAl

    MrAl Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Hi,

    I did not read the article yet, is that the same one that came out a while back that stated that the heat energy from the LED itself could be harvested to help power the LED during normal use? If not it sounds almost the same anyway.

    It's no big news that heat energy could be used to power devices by converting heat energy to electrical energy, and this has been done in a lot of devices already and even more in recent times. But we have to be careful how we evaluate the overall operation with regard to efficiency. If we have an LED then we have to rate the LED, and if we have a heat to electrical conversion device then we have to rate that separately. If we want too later then we can combine the two to form a comparative measure. Even if the conversion device is part of the LED, even part of the die, it is physically a different device and has to be handled that way.
    In the future, if this works out, we might in fact start rating LEDs based on overall efficiency rather than the two individual measures, so we could see numbers like 110 percent, 120 percent, etc., but that would be a comparative measure not an absolute measure because if we measure all the energy going into the whole construction and the energy out, the energy out will always be less than the energy in. If it's not so, then there is energy getting into the system that we havent detected yet.
    I had given another example i think on this web site where we have a space craft flying from one planet to another distance planet, and by taking the right path we can use the gravity of another planet to help boost the speed of the craft. Since we dont have to pay for the gravity, it seems like we are getting better efficiency, when in fact we are getting the extra energy from the third intermediate planets gravitational attraction. An interesting question then is, if we took this flight enough times would we decrease the gravitational attraction of that third planet, and mass to energy conversion might tell us that we did although it will be small.

    Conservation of energy is one of the hardest laws of nature to break, and so far i dont think anyone has really done it. Comparatively it might look like they did because of external influences that have not been taken into account, but after they are taken into account we end up back to the conservation of energy :)
     
  18. Tony Stewart

    Tony Stewart Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    It is false journalism

    "69 picowatts of light, of course, is a very small amount -- so you're not likely to be able to read in bed with one of these LEDs"

    What they fail to mention is that LED's also work as Photodetectors, meaning they are somewhat bidirectional energy converters and can take ambient energy such as photons and create current.

    THe lattice vibrations they recorded were probably from the ambient energy, which may be thermal in this case.

    Rookies
     

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